Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
When a large number of a breed of dogs attack people is it because that breed is dangerous or is it because dangerous people buy the breed?
XL Bully dog - discussion
- Thread starter platinumsage
- Start date
Steel Icarus
we move
Oh look, a media panic. 
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Pretty sure if dangerous people all bought spaniels instead, we wouldn't be having this conservation, no matter how badly they treated them.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
Myth of Lockjaw - Peninsula Humane Society & SPCA
Dear Miss Behavin’: I love how cute Pit Bulls look, and I’ve been considering adopting one, but I am very scared about their “Lockjaw.” Should I adopt a different breed? The American Pit Bull Terrier is a very loving, athletic, and affectionate breed of dog. Unfortunately, it is also one of the...
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
It’s not so much the attack that is the concern but the severity. Jack Russels are the most dangerous breed if you are looking at number of attacks per dog on average.
With larger dogs you need to be especially careful, obv.
What happened to dog licenses? I don’t really remember much of a conversation about ditching them.
He is a dog and dogs are unpredictable but I very much doubt it. He’s been in pain and he’s let me touch his ears although obviously he yelped. I’m not stupid enough to let the children near him if I thought he was in pain. Managing risk.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
It’s not even about dangerous breeds, the pack mentality is enough for an attack.
I was involved in an incident at work last year (it’s not come to court yet) but I rescued a guy & his dog from being attacked by three mongrels who were off the lead whilst being walked by a dog walker who had another four dogs on leads - he had no control over the situation at all. One dog started & the others joined in. It was fucking scary situation, & I dread to think what would have happened if all seven were involved!
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Banning dogs reactively as a response to media moral panics is never a good idea.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Matter of degree, innit.
Mine is a Wirehaired Pointer, he's a dog designed and bred to detect, hunt, and if necessary chase, and bring down a full size deer (he's 35kg), he's also soft as shite around people, and remarkably tolerant of massively annoying dogs (not a fan of cats though...).
He would, I think, take an enormous degree of provocation - he walks away if he's getting pissed off - but in the end, he's a domesticated wolf, and if you pushed his buttons hard enough, he'd react.
While I think the idea that how a dog is brought up, treated, and trained is a huge driver in how it turns out, I also think it's foolish to ignore what selective breeding - which is how we get dog breeds - produces. Terriers will rat without being trained, spaniels will flush without being trained, retrievers with retrieve without being trained, and pointers will point without being trained - why then should we imagine that dogs bred for fighting will only fight if trained to do so?
A dog, like a person, can never be fully trusted not to flip - but if that dog has been selectively bred to flip, then it shortens the odds somewhat...
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
abolished in 1988 according to this.
never having been much of a dog person, i'm not entirely sure, but that seems to be saying it was a purely administrative thing / dog tax, rather than it involving any checks on the welfare of the dog/s involved, or suitability of the owner to keep dogs - which suggests it was pretty much pointless in the form it was then.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Oh look, a media panic.
How are you defining a "media panic"? Was it a media panic after the Hungerford massacre that led the to the The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 banning the ownership of semi-automatic rifles?
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Fair enough. You’d need revocation of license and proper enforcement for there to be any point.
8ball
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My understanding is they’re not bred to flip as such. With pit bulls the major difference is in suggestibility and trainability, then the fighting ones are systematically mistreated so that they live on an amygdalic knife edge.
Terriers, Spaniels etc. were bred over a much longer timescale.
That’s not to say there’s any sane reason to create dogs with such a large body size and bite strength if you are breeding companion animals, obv.
hash tag
Reaching out
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
But that’s now very far from a guarantee, as per your previous post.
Pain can come on suddenly, like with a bee sting, and of course what a dog will tolerate from its alpha owner, it many not cope with from a person it isn’t submissive to.
Edit - your dog isn’t really the point, obviously. The point is, temperament is never guaranteed, and in those unpredictable moments, a big muscular dog is much more dangerous, arguably to the extent that the risk isn’t worth it.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
story
Changing the facts
Myth of Lockjaw - Peninsula Humane Society & SPCA
Dear Miss Behavin’: I love how cute Pit Bulls look, and I’ve been considering adopting one, but I am very scared about their “Lockjaw.” Should I adopt a different breed? The American Pit Bull Terrier is a very loving, athletic, and affectionate breed of dog. Unfortunately, it is also one of the...phs-spca.org
Okay. But I do know that the charming kind gentle pittie I lived with had a head like and anvil and never noticed when he’d bump it or when stuff bumped his head, or even when a vase fell on him ( I mean, he noticed enough to raise his head and look around but didn’t get up or show any distress, like he did when he got a bee sting)). And when he had a tennis ball in his mouth he’d go into some kind of other-place state. He’d just glaze over. I once ( only the once) tried to get the ball away (he’d pick up balls that had been lost in the park, I never supplied them) and it was like trying to open a vice. There was no give at all. So maybe not physiologically locked, he still had some kind of agency (he’d drop the ball eventually, when he decided he’d had enough) but for all of my own intents and purposes, his jaw was locked.
I adore him, he’s my pal still. And Ive known other pit bulls and I’d gladly live with another (if it hadn’t been weaponised by the means outlined in my other post). But having now lived with a pit bull I am aware that they - or at the very least this one, so presumably some others - have the capacity to lock their jaws. Or … their jaw muscles are much much stronger than human arm muscles, so they can easily resist the efforts made. Or something.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I think dog licences should be brought back, renewable annually, and in order to get a licence owners should be required to have insurance in case the dog attacks someone.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
You’re right on the last part. They don’t lock but they’re massively strong.
Jaws tend to be like that, even with humans. Try holding your own jaw open with your hand and biting down hard.
Pit bull jaw muscles are a lot stronger.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yeah there's a bloke near us with two very large bulldogs. He goes and does push ups and shit down by the river, and lets his dogs roam along the top of the bank where he can't even see them. Our dog does not respond well to strange dogs approaching him and so is always kept on a lead, but if one of those big fuckers comes at us what can I do about it? If the owner is in no position to control and apparently has no intention of doing so. Yeah they're probably lovely dogs but I or anyone else doesn't know that is they encounter them loose in a public place.
Some of the attacks involving these creatures are horrific. There was a woman in the US who lost both arms above the shoulder joint among numerous other injuries. They tore off so much flesh that there was just nothing left that could be saved. The punishments given out to the owners of the dogs in these cases are not proportional to the harm caused.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The breed helps. The world's most vicious Jack Russel owned by the world's worst dog owner is still unlikely to do much damage above the knees, and if all else fails one good kick would send the thing into the middle distance. One of these giant bulldogs though, if it attacks you, you're fucked.
story
Changing the facts
Okay.
To be more and yet more precise….
The particular dog I lived with had a tendency to lock his jaw and resist and refuse all efforts to persuade him to drop the ball. More significant for the current discussion was the apparently trance-like state that accompanied said voluntary locked jaw. The dog I knew to be gentle and obedient the rest of time would be ignorant and rude when he had the tennis ball in his mouth. He just wanted to keep on gripping that ball with his jaw. Something about that sensation felt so good to him that it overrode his loyalty and obedience.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I was talking of the last time this happened and then no one was bitten by a dog ever after.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
I obv wasn’t there and didn’t see, but I’ve encountered lots of good-natured dogs who really won’t let go of a ball until they’re good and ready.
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
Going by the scale on this diagram that man is 3'4" tall.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Our dog is soft as shite and loves all humans but I understand that not everyone likes dogs, and that a large creature jumping up at you can be scary, so I keep him on a short lead and grab hold of him if say there's a runner coming past, as he gets spooked by surprise runners and can jump up at them. If I couldn't physically control him when needed, I wouldn't be comfortable taking him out at all, and therefore wouldn't be comfortable owning him.
And one of those steroid-mutant supersize bulldogs, if it decides it's going to do something, no human is going to stop it.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
That is a really good spot.
It’s pretty shameful that we got this far with no one properly looking at that.
story
Changing the facts
Fucksake 8Ball. What are you aiming for here? For me to say “Yep, you’re right, I’m wrong. In light of your experience I now re-evaluate my own and I’ve changed my mind”
story
Changing the facts
This wasn’t good natured “I’ve got the ball, you’re not having it, chase me!” stuff. Nor was it “I’m not done yet, I want to mouth it a bit more” nor “You’re not the boss of me!”
This was, as I’ve variously stated, a kind of fugue state, a glazed over trance like state. I’ve been around dogs myself and I’ve never seen this in another breed.
But since you so often present yourself as the authority when it comes to my own opinions, I’ll bow to you here and get out of the thread before I make a fool of myself.
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