Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

XL Bully dog - discussion

8ball said:
I don’t know about over the pond, and I wasn’t aware of any decent genetic markers that could be used, but in the UK, if the State decides a dog is a banned breed, it is the owner’s responsibility to prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
I'm in the UK too.
 
8ball said:
Gets them as far as determining they are actually looking at a dog, I guess.
Click to expand...
They can ID breed you muppet! Actually you can do it on your own dog like you can on your own family, were you so inclined.

My son did this out of curiosity - and found out what he was told was a husky/ springer cross was actually a border collie / springer cross. Answered a few questions when you consider the typical behaviour of each breed. There's loads of testing sites - example of one below

 
8ball said:
Hard to gauge scale but looks scary enough.

I had a bit of a dog phobia growing up. The 1970s was not a good time for a dog phobia.

Sure he’s lovely and all that, but would still give me a start if off the lead and regular huskie size.
Click to expand...

Bigger than a Husky. About the size of a medium Alsatian, but with front shoulders on steroids and paws bigger than my hands (see pic). He's never shown the slightest bit of aggression towards people and has certainly never bitten anyone, except me, and that was by accident in the early days when he tried to take a ball out of my hand and got it all wrong (hence Dickhead). But accidents do happen. He gets a lot of attention, especially from kids who want to pet him and he loves it, but I keep a hand on his collar and stay very alert. Owners should also realise that not everyone loves your fucking dog, no matter what size it is.

1660430245928.png
 
Last edited:
Callie said:
I saw this dog being arrested by the police.

She was wandering around the streets, obviously worrying people cos she was a bull breed. She was really friendly, wiggling at her arrester and hopped into the van when asked.

She looked like she had lots of scars though :( hope she didn't get put down View attachment 337396View attachment 337397View attachment 337398
Click to expand...
Someone had gone to the trouble to find a vet who would chop the dogs ears. Not really a sign of a responsible owner. And no good outcome for such a dog either, tbh.
Grand-daughter was attacked by a fucking wolf-dog. The people who own these trophy dogs are pretty disgusting, to my mind...but obviously, I am massively biased by seeing too many useless twats with (all sorts of dogs) who are,effectively, out of control (dogs, but also owners, tbf).
 
campanula said:
Someone had gone to the trouble to find a vet who would chop the dogs ears.
Click to expand...

i thought that was illegal (in this country) now - so suspect it wouldn't have been a vet

campanula said:
The people who own these trophy dogs are pretty disgusting, to my mind...but obviously, I am massively biased by seeing too many useless twats with (all sorts of dogs) who are,effectively, out of control (dogs, but also owners, tbf).
Click to expand...

maybe a selective programme of neutering is needed?

(not necessarily the dogs...)
 
I did wonder if a solution for youth stabbings was mandatory full plate armour.

Now we have the dog issue too so I'm really beginning to think it's the only sensible solution.
 
How to find them in the first place would be a problem I think.

Fighting dogs here in Brixton are bred in secret. You'll see the mama being taken out for a walk sometimes, her dugs flopping about. I doubt there‘s any license or officialdom involved with what the humans are doing.. Presumably these XL dogs are being bred similarly.
 
felixthecat said:
They can ID breed you muppet! Actually you can do it on your own dog like you can on your own family, were you so inclined.

My son did this out of curiosity - and found out what he was told was a husky/ springer cross was actually a border collie / springer cross. Answered a few questions when you consider the typical behaviour of each breed. There's loads of testing sites - example of one below

Click to expand...

Sorry, mate, but this is nonsense. They can’t tell a breed with total accuracy because there isn’t even a proper scientific definition of what a “breed” means.

What they are doing is comparing strings of DNA to strings from dogs they have agreed on the breed of, with whatever they have been given, and the result is very often embarrassingly chaotic.

It’s not hard to find a diddy terrier and find it has a lot of matches with pit bull DNA.

I wouldn’t dispute that there are plenty of shysters with rudimentary RFLP kit queueing up to take your money, though.
 
8ball said:
For those of restricted memory, one of the issues with the bans on dog breeds is that there is no simple way of determining a dog’s breed.

This issue then gets exacerbated by Government, who start writing laws of the “chiefly characterised by a series of repetitive beats” variety.

The law is based entirely on what a dog looks like.

This has led to mongrels of unrelated heritage being destroyed, among other innocent dogs.

Also, the dangerous dogs act completely failed in reducing the number of injuries from dog attacks.

Extending a failed law doesn’t look like the way to go to me.
Click to expand...
I worked for the person who did most of the drafting of the 91 Dangerous Dog's Act. She was tasked to do it as at the time she was a moderately senior civil servant and she was really into her dogs - she used to breed and work dogs as a hobby when I worked for her She told me that she had argued against making specific dogs breeds 'unlawful' as they don't really 'exist' as such and as such would be (and are) almost impossible to enforce; she was overruled by the politicians. They were looking to ban pit bulls to assuage that months Daily Mail moral panic but decided to go for all dogs bred for fighting. She said that in those almost pre internet days she looked up in her Observers' Big Book of Dogs and found that world wide there were four breeds specifically bred for fighting. She added them all to the Bill (and they made it to the Act, even though she though at that point their had never been a Dogo Argentini or Fila Brasierio in the UK ever.

'Laws and sausages. Both great things but you really don't want to see how they are made...'
 
Last edited:
And, apparently, on those occasions where the UK police have to shoot a dog that is so dangerous they can't catch it with fire extinguishers and one of those loops on a pole the control room gets literally more than 100 times the hate calls the get when police shoot a person. Apparently.
 
Last edited:
8ball said:
You: big strong nice dog not let go of ball!

Me: yeah, nice dogs hold ball hard sometimes. not let go. dogged. me do pun lol.

You: but with big strong dog - it really hard!

Me: big strong dog hold ball harder. not so strange. even if nice dog.

You: me take ball home now. not play with mean person!
Click to expand...


If this is your reading of the exchange we had earlier then it appears that we were talking at cross purposes with each other.

I wasn’t sulking off. I decided that I didn’t want to be in the middle of a trivial discussion and got off the internet. Also, I was annoyed with what I felt was unnecessary nitpicking about something that was actually secondary to the point I was making (the trance-like state that accompanied the jaw thing).

It seemed to me that you were insisting that my interpretation of what had happened with the dog in my care was wrong or mistaken or somehow not as true or as correct as your reading. You were basing that on the jaw thing and I was thinking about my own lived experience of witnessing the dog go into a trance state when he had something in his mouth.

The reason I tend to leave discussions like this is because I dont see the point in the “No you, no you, no you are, no you are” race for the last word. So I just stop. Sometimes I say that I’m stopping, sometime I don’t.

I‘m willing to accept that you and I just rub each other up the wrong way and that no one else gets annoyed at the way you pick up on minor details and dig into them, even if it’s not the actual point I was trying to communicate. I’m willing to accept that I’m bad at making myself clear. I’m not willing to accept that my own opinions based on my own experience are less valid than those of someone who wasn’t there. That’s what annoyed me.

So I apologise for …. Well, whatever it is that I did wrong, but I have to be honest and say I don’t know what that was. In future I’ll just not engage with you. It just seems like we always end up here.



And apologies to the thread for dragging it back half a day.

I‘ve shared all I know about pit bulls so that’s me shot me load on this topic.
 
story said:
If this is your reading of the exchange we had earlier then it appears that we were talking at cross purposes with each other.

I wasn’t sulking off. I decided that I didn’t want to be in the middle of a trivial discussion and got off the internet. Also, I was annoyed with what I felt was unnecessary nitpicking about something that was actually secondary to the point I was making (the trance-like state that accompanied the jaw thing).

It seemed to me that you were insisting that my interpretation of what had happened with the dog in my care was wrong or mistaken or somehow not as true or as correct as your reading. You were basing that on the jaw thing and I was thinking about my own lived experience of witnessing the dog go into a trance state when he had something in his mouth.

The reason I tend to leave discussions like this is because I dont see the point in the “No you, no you, no you are, no you are” race for the last word. So I just stop. Sometimes I say that I’m stopping, sometime I don’t.

I‘m willing to accept that you and I just rub each other up the wrong way and that no one else gets annoyed at the way you pick up on minor details and dig into them, even if it’s not the actual point I was trying to communicate. I’m willing to accept that I’m bad at making myself clear. I’m not willing to accept that my own opinions based on my own experience are less valid than those of someone who wasn’t there. That’s what annoyed me.

So I apologise for …. Well, whatever it is that I did wrong, but I have to be honest and say I don’t know what that was. In future I’ll just not engage with you. It just seems like we always end up here.
Click to expand...

I don’t want to cease engaging with you. I just meant that what you were describing did not seem very different from what I have seen in other dog breeds, aside from that the extra bite strength is hard to negotiate with.
 
8ball said:
I don’t want to cease engaging with you. I just meant that what you were describing did not seem very different from what I have seen in other dog breeds, aside from that the extra bite strength is hard to negotiate with.
Click to expand...

It was the TRANCE bit that made it significant. The bit where the dog lost his ability to mind me, be obedient, do as he was told, pay attention. The bit where he was suddenly, like, not the dog I knew because he was in an altered state, a fugue state. I said that several times.

He would obediently drop, come to heel, sit, lay, everything but if he had his jaws “locked“ around a tennis ball, he would stop listening, stop obeying, pay no attention. He would stand and grip his jaw around that ball until he was ready to drop it and nothing I said or did made a difference. And I once, onlyy once, tried to take the ball away becasue he was kinda stuck in placem just standing there, and I wanted to go home. His jaw was “locked“ so I stopped. Not because he was doing what I’ve seen and experienced other dogs to do, but becasue he was in a sort of altered state that I’ve never seen in any other breed.
I said all this.

And that, that bit about the trance, is the bit that seemed to me to be relevant to the discussion at hand. A dog I mormally trust to obey me and mind me would become deaf and blind to my authority once he had his jaws aroind sometihg that made him feel good in some way that overrode his training.
 
Last edited:
story said:
It was the TRANCE but that made it significant. The bit where the dog lost his ability to mind me, be obedient, do as he was told, pay attention. The bit where he was suddenly, like, not the dog I knew because he was in an altered state, a fugue state. I said that several times.

He woukd obediently drop, come to heel, sit, lay, everything but if he had his jaws “locked“ aroind a tennis ball, he would stop listening, stop obeying, lay no attention.

And that, that bit, seemed to me to be relevant to the discussion at hand. A dog I mormally trust to obey me and mind me would become deaf and blind to my authority once he had his jaws aroind sometihg that made him feel good in some way that overrode his training.
Click to expand...

My experience of dogs is limited tbf. I have seen dogs get stubborn and ignore me when playing with a ball, but if this is a step change in this breed’s behaviour then I accept that this is your experience. I’ve not been with a pit bull under similar circumstances.
 
It wasn’t stubbornness. It was a trance like state. His owner agreed with me. That’s why he wasn’t allowed to have tennis balls. It was a worry. A concern. He didn’t want the dog to like or desire that state. The dog would pick up tennis balls he’d find in the park. In fact he liked them so much he went seeking them. Presumably because he liked that altered state. He wouldn’t run for them or ask a human to throw them, he just wanted to grip them in his mouth and stand there with that glazed look. It may have been some strange quirk of that particular dog. Unique and peculiar, who the fuck knows. The POINT is that if this kind gentle dog, a pit bull, had a tendency to get into a trance when something of a certain dimension was his mouth, then he probably could be dangerous if the right circumstances pertain.


Step change? Not sure about that. I doubt this dog was an outlier to be honest. He came out of Tottenham gang land, very likely bred for fighting. Rescued. Pretty much stolen out of a horrendous situation

If a breed is bred for fighting, then the ones who are good at it may take some measure of pleasure in that fight. The dog that “likes” to fight would likely be a more successful fighter. Getting enough pleasure that it puts you iinto a trance while hold onto the opponent would be an advantage, something the breeder would maybe select for.
 
Last edited:
story said:
Ir wasn’t stubbornness. It was a trance like state. His owner agreed with me. That’s why he wasn’t allowed to have tennis balls. It was a worry.
Click to expand...

In that he might attack someone who wrestled the ball from him?
 
8ball said:
In that he might attack someone who wrestled the ball from him?
Click to expand...

I don’t know. There was that concern, when he was younger. Hence never being given a ball. And why I only tried the once to take the ball from him. I just felt such a blank wall of complete ignorance (as in ignore-ance) from him when I tried that one time. I just didn’t want to create an argument with him, that anvil head, those incredibly powerful jaws.

It never happened. He is, as I’ve said, a sweet natured dog. But as a pit bull, precautions were taken because of this proclivity. If he’d stayed in the circumstances he was born in, that trait may have been valued and provoked. As it was, he was rescued and his kind sweet side was nurtured. And obedience too.

And the reason I had the care of him for an extended period of time was exactly because it was important for him to learn that not just the humans he already knew but ALL humans, even those in South London, had authority over him. He lived with me cos I was very strict, zero tolerance with everything.

He grew up to be a really good dog, a very good dog, yes he is. He’s quite old now, for a pittie, and arthritic. His owner is a professional dog walker and this dog is an excellent pack leader, a good and sensible leader of the sometimes large pack his owner walks each day.

He lived with me from when he was about 18 months old, for about a year.
 
story said:
It wasn’t stubbornness. It was a trance like state. His owner agreed with me. That’s why he wasn’t allowed to have tennis balls. It was a worry. A concern. He didn’t want the dog to like or desire that state. The dog would pick up tennis balls he’d find in the park. In fact he liked them so much he went seeking them. Presumably because he liked that altered state. He wouldn’t run for them or ask a human to throw them, he just wanted to grip them in his mouth and stand there with that glazed look. It may have been some strange quirk of that particular dog. Unique and peculiar, who the fuck knows. The POINT is that if this kind gentle dog, a pit bull, had a tendency to get into a trance when something of a certain dimension was his mouth, then he probably could be dangerous if the right circumstances pertain.


Step change? Not sure about that. I doubt this dog was an outlier to be honest. He came out of Tottenham gang land, very likely bred for fighting. Rescued. Pretty much stolen out of a horrendous situation

If a breed is bred for fighting, then the ones who are good at it may take some measure of pleasure in that fight. The dog that “likes” to fight would likely be a more successful fighter. Getting enough pleasure that it puts you iinto a trance while hold onto the opponent would be an advantage, something the breeder would maybe select for.
Click to expand...

No no, there’s no such thing as breeds bred for fighting. The tests can’t pick them out. apparently.
 
xenon said:
No no, there’s no such thing as breeds bred for fighting. The tests can’t pick them out. apparently.
Click to expand...

Surely there is very little overall genetic difference between a labrador and a poodle and a pitbull.
A genetic test can probably indicate whether a particular dog is related to another (much like paternity tests for humans) but it can't tell you what breed a dog is I'd have thought, because a breed is not a very clearly defined set of genetic material - it's a human concept, not a biological one.
 
story said:
It wasn’t stubbornness. It was a trance like state. His owner agreed with me. That’s why he wasn’t allowed to have tennis balls. It was a worry. A concern. He didn’t want the dog to like or desire that state. The dog would pick up tennis balls he’d find in the park. In fact he liked them so much he went seeking them. Presumably because he liked that altered state. He wouldn’t run for them or ask a human to throw them, he just wanted to grip them in his mouth and stand there with that glazed look. It may have been some strange quirk of that particular dog. Unique and peculiar, who the fuck knows. The POINT is that if this kind gentle dog, a pit bull, had a tendency to get into a trance when something of a certain dimension was his mouth, then he probably could be dangerous if the right circumstances pertain.


Step change? Not sure about that. I doubt this dog was an outlier to be honest. He came out of Tottenham gang land, very likely bred for fighting. Rescued. Pretty much stolen out of a horrendous situation

If a breed is bred for fighting, then the ones who are good at it may take some measure of pleasure in that fight. The dog that “likes” to fight would likely be a more successful fighter. Getting enough pleasure that it puts you iinto a trance while hold onto the opponent would be an advantage, something the breeder would maybe select for.
Click to expand...
To be fair, 'Pitbull Trance' does seem like a great name for a musical genre. Moody and uplifting.
 
Epona said:
Surely there is very little overall genetic difference between a labrador and a poodle and a pitbull.
A genetic test can probably indicate whether a particular dog is related to another (much like paternity tests for humans) but it can't tell you what breed a dog is I'd have thought, because a breed is not a very clearly defined set of genetic material - it's a human concept, not a biological one.
Click to expand...
I imagine it would be quite easy. You could use machine learning and show an algorithm a bunch of DNA sequences and say "these are from a pitbull" and a bunch more and say "these are from a labrador" and before too long it could classify new sequences as pitbull or labrador and the results would agree with a human assessment of that dog.
 
platinumsage said:
I imagine it would be quite easy. You could use machine learning and show an algorithm a bunch of DNA sequences and say "these are from a pitbull" and a bunch more and say "these are from a labrador" and before too long it could classify new sequences as pitbull or labrador and the results would agree with a human assessment of that dog.
Click to expand...

I think it might be a quite fun Computer Science undergrad dissertation topic, but about as successful as loading the algorithm with a bunch of books and expecting it to be able to look at new strings of words and tell you whether the book it’s from is any good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
Kemi Badenoch discussion
13 14 15 16 17
Replies
495
Views
21K
pbsmooth
P
Pickman's model
rip jax, a police dog who said enough's enough
Replies
11
Views
978
Shippou-Sensei
Shippou-Sensei
Maggot
Storm Eunice, 18th Feb 2022 - news and discussion
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
332
Views
15K
Dogsauce
Dogsauce
editor
'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey
22 23 24 25 26
Replies
759
Views
23K
mentalchik
mentalchik
RileyOBlimey
Racism of the Met Police’s attack dogs the TSG
Replies
9
Views
650
Pickman's model
Pickman's model
Back
Top Bottom