'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The vast majority of human–dog relationships I see are a win-win situation. It is true that for some vegans, their ethical and political veganism holds that keeping pets is exploitative, but not for others, and I don't see anything that requires it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
If it's being done for profit, yes, but even there it is quite possible to keep healthy, happy dogs that you breed to produce healthy, happy puppies that then find good homes. I don't think it's an inherently evil process, but as with most things, there are people who do it badly or unethically.
gosub
~#
Heard the scientist interviewed on Jeremy Vine at time. Sounded more like your average hop bought dogs dinner has more crap in it than a value sausage
Sorry I can't take this seriously.
Making someone feel guilty.
What about vegans making meat eaters feel guilty. As a meat eater I don't have an issue with that. I don't believe any vegans are really upset or feel bullied by the questions about pets I don't subscribe to the false idea that vegans are weak or drippy. Shame you're implying that yourself.
And if you don't get buying a dog for a pet is exploitative. Not evil, wicked immorral but still a bit exploitative then you're using a different dictionary to me...
WouldBe
Dislicksick
My husky is the laziest dog going. I'm half expecting her to want me to chew her food for her.
I think it's me that's been exploited be her. 
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I think I know why some are so against veganism. Vegans are quite correct in what they say - eating meat given the conditions that animals are kept in and how they are killed is inhumane. You know that, yet you keep eating meat. When vegans point this out you get angry because you know they're right but you can't admit it to yourself. That's why you have to try to get revenge by trying to make them feel guilty.
And where did I suggest that vegans are weak or drippy? You're the one bringing up those insults. I said "trying to make them feel guilty" not succeeding.
Which definition of 'exploit' are you using?
1. make productive use of : utilize exploiting your talents exploit your opponent's weakness 2. make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage exploiting migrant farm workers
Definition of EXPLOIT
deed, act; especially : a notable, memorable, or heroic act… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
I'd agree if you're using it in the first definition, but you'll have to explain how my owning a dog is mean or unfair and to my own advantage and not to my dog's.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I know. Socialists are just as bad - they're always telling people how bad capitalism is
editor
hiraethified
(((poor sensitive bullied xenon)))
gosub
~#
I know. If I had a £ for every time I heard that I probably wouldn't worry about the limits of capitaismI know. Socialists are just as bad - they're always telling people how bad capitalism is
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, it's a two-way thing. It's not as straightforward as saying that humans domesticated dogs. Dogs domesticated humans as well, for instance by creating tricks and body language that humans would respond positively to. With other animals it may be different, but essentially, wild dogs came to live with humans quite willingly.My husky is the laziest dog going. I'm half expecting her to want me to chew her food for her.
editor
hiraethified
Yep.
The Origins Of Cats | International Cat Care
The domestic cat (Felis catus) is one of the most recently evolved species within the Felidae family. From three genera Panthera, Acinonyx and Felis.
icatcare.org
Cats Domesticated Themselves, Ancient DNA Shows
A comprehensive survey of cat genes suggests that even after felines wandered into our lives, they remained largely unchanged for thousands of years.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Dogs have made a concerted effort to make themselves as human-friendly as possible.
Cats have made no effort whatever to fit in.
They expect us to fit in with them.
Cats have made no effort whatever to fit in.
They expect us to fit in with them.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
not just 'expect' it's a one-sided contestDogs have made a concerted effort to make themselves as human-friendly as possible.
Cats have made no effort whatever to fit in.
They expect us to fit in with them.
I think I know why some are so against veganism. Vegans are quite correct in what they say - eating meat given the conditions that animals are kept in and how they are killed is inhumane. You know that, yet you keep eating meat. When vegans point this out you get angry because you know they're right but you can't admit it to yourself. That's why you have to try to get revenge by trying to make them feel guilty.
And where did I suggest that vegans are weak or drippy? You're the one bringing up those insults. I said "trying to make them feel guilty" not succeeding.
Which definition of 'exploit' are you using?
1. make productive use of : utilize exploiting your talents exploit your opponent's weakness 2. make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage exploiting migrant farm workers
Definition of EXPLOIT
deed, act; especially : a notable, memorable, or heroic act… See the full definition
I'd agree if you're using it in the first definition, but you'll have to explain how my owning a dog is mean or unfair and to my own advantage and not to my dog's.
Where have I been angry? I'm not throwing insults around talking about fragility or whatnot. Yet apparently I'm bullying people by asking a question. Which I hadn't even raised again until you mentioned it today.
bizarre.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
"Vegans shouldn't have pets" isn't a question. I'm puzzled though, if you didn't say it then why did you respond when I gave that quote?
But anyway - we can agree to differ.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I'm familiar with the process and how animals are kept (that I eat) and I completely reject that premise.
Vegans are welcome to their view, but I suspect (like most arbitrary groups of people), they are not a monothought clique. My ex girlfriend was (and still is) a vegan and seemingly had little problem with me both owning a grazing flock of sheep and also working in a broiler hatchery part time.
As for most meat eaters, I suspect most couldn't care less and/or never really think about where their food comes from. The modern, supermarket system completely disconnects the consumer from the product.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Even touting their pic about online in a shameless hunt for likes
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Agree with the rest of what you said, but chickens being kept in crowded battery conditions, cows being bred to produce huge quantities of milk, videos of some abattoirs - particularly in the US?
I don't think meat production is necessarily a problem but really no cruelty in how the great majority of meat's produced now? I'd love to think it's true, I'd feel happier in consuming it,
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there's several obvious problems which have been covered exhaustively in other threads so although i'm happy, if asked, to provide evidence i offer here only the headings, namely the resources consumed by animals destined for slaughter, and the environmental degradation this can cause; the methane emissions, from cattle in particular, and the inescapable fact of cruelty within the terminal stage of meat production, if not throughout the life cycle of animals bred for slaughter: which last you refer to so well
editor
hiraethified
The vast majority of meat production takes place in industrial scale factory farms, stuffed full of inherent cruelty.
Ending factory farming
Factory Farming is everywhere. Around two in every three farm animals are factory farmed (that’s over 50 billion every year!). These intensive systems put production above all else, creating vast quantities of seemingly cheap meat, milk and eggs.
www.ciwf.org.uk
Factory Farming Is Sweeping the U.K.
Two British reporters discuss their recent investigation tracking the rise of factory farming in the United Kingdom and its resemblance to American practices.
The myth of UK farming
Uncover the shocking reality: Over 70% of UK farm animals suffer in factory farms. Join the movement for change and make ethical, sustainable food choices.
www.worldanimalprotection.org.uk
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
The food (I eat) - sorry, I edited in the brackets afterwards to clarify.
I don't eat cage eggs.
Dairying was one I was slightly dubious about before I took my current job, but we have a 300 cow dairy herd at work and now I've spent some time around it, I'm a bit more comfortable with it.
I don't eat imported food from the USA and I do spend time in UK abattoirs - I take my students on a couple of visits, I think it's important they see the process if they are going to produce the product.
I suppose I should add, since the usual cut and paste of opinion pieces has been chucked on this thread (are they permanently on someone's clipboard?). I'm basing my opinion on my actual, lived experience of the process, from birth to death. I can't be arsed to go round in the same circles that have been done to death on other threads.
Last edited:
Shameless and successful hunt for likesEven touting their pic about online in a shameless hunt for likes
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
My husky is the laziest dog going. I'm half expecting her to want me to chew her food for her.
TBF, Huskies are the primadonnas of the dog world.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
If mine found out what a dog sled was she'd be the first in the back.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ok, so editor banned me from the other current vegan thread, the kind of thing he tends to do on these threads in a blatant misuse of his mod powers.
So I'll pop this here.
While I'm not narrowly interested in the 'we must be vegan to save the planet' line, I am interested in all viable alternatives. In the very narrow case of dog food, that probably includes entoculture, as it does for humans as well. Mussel farming is another case in point.
Ethics-wise, is it possible to be cruel to a mussel? Given the uncentralised nature of its nervous system, is there something it is like to be a mussel that means it can experience suffering? I would argue that this is very doubtful.
Meanwhile, there are quite a few advocates of mussel farming as a green solution. This study of mussel farming in the Baltic suggests that it can indeed be a very green way to farm. The study suggests that careful positioning of farms allows them to operate without measurable detrimental effects. And mussel farms can even have a net positive effect on the environment by reducing eutrophication where this is an issue.
https://www.submariner-network.eu/images/20190508_BBG_Factsheet_Environmental_impacts
As food, they're very good for you, mussels, and not too pricey. I'd encourage everyone to eat more of them. Maybe even dogs?
So I'll pop this here.
While I'm not narrowly interested in the 'we must be vegan to save the planet' line, I am interested in all viable alternatives. In the very narrow case of dog food, that probably includes entoculture, as it does for humans as well. Mussel farming is another case in point.
Ethics-wise, is it possible to be cruel to a mussel? Given the uncentralised nature of its nervous system, is there something it is like to be a mussel that means it can experience suffering? I would argue that this is very doubtful.
Meanwhile, there are quite a few advocates of mussel farming as a green solution. This study of mussel farming in the Baltic suggests that it can indeed be a very green way to farm. The study suggests that careful positioning of farms allows them to operate without measurable detrimental effects. And mussel farms can even have a net positive effect on the environment by reducing eutrophication where this is an issue.
https://www.submariner-network.eu/images/20190508_BBG_Factsheet_Environmental_impacts
As food, they're very good for you, mussels, and not too pricey. I'd encourage everyone to eat more of them. Maybe even dogs?
Similar threads
- Poll
