The NHS needs to get its finger out and stop whining about lack of funds. They are bloated and wasteful.

[Karl Masks]

the two claims aren't mutually exclusive; they can be bloated and wasteful, and underfunded

 

[two sheds]

the two claims aren't mutually exclusive; they can be bloated and wasteful, and underfunded

yep bloated and wasteful in some areas like management and underfunded in others like the front line

 

[Karl Masks]

yep bloated and wasteful in some areas like management and underfunded in others like the front line

it's ultimately the political will behind it.

Which, as I read comrade Streeting, is in safe hands

Oh dear

 

[kalidarkone]

Clearly so! I am deeply unconvinced that the NHS needs delayering. It’s undermanaged if anything. It definitely needs restructuring, though.

Why do you think it's under managed?
The management ladder starts at band 6 (7 in midwifery) then there are 7 tiers to the top.

 

[Silas Loom]

Why do you think it's under managed?
The management ladder starts at band 6 (7 in midwifery) then there are 7 tiers to the top.

Administrative and clinical management could certainly do with being flatter! But I’ve been told many times and I’ve read in reports by eg Kings Fund that it is underresourced.

 

[gosub]

Oh yeh, they did a brilliant job of purchasing PPE to prepare for a pandemic.. lol

What reserves we did have were sent to China in the early stages in the spirit of international cooperation

 

[Rob Ray]

This list though jfc

£1.7 billion cost of hospital beds for patients who are well enough to leave, but can’t because there is no care available in the community

So is he proposing funding social care properly? Because his boss has already said that's not a goer. Labour to omit funding of social care reform from manifesto and scale back Lords plans

£3.5 billion paid to recruitment agencies because the Conservatives have failed to train enough staff over the last 14 years

Training is not the problem. Retention is the problem, because wages have stagnated in an internationally competitive context for decades. And Wes has no intention of upping them to become competitive.

Labour says raising junior doctors’ pay would be a ‘journey, not an event’

Health spokesperson Wes Streeting reiterates need for caution over spending if party wins next general election

www.google.com

£626 million spent by the Department of Health and Social Care on management consultants

I'm sure there's lots of waste there, but what is the detail of these supposed savings? How will they be identified? Why would Labour do this any more successfully than the Tories, who have also identified and repeatedly promised to make headway, or Blair's Labour (same)?

£32 million value of the pagers NHS staff are still forced to use

Lol. "Sorry boss we couldn't find a good fifth buzz line. If we put it fourth I guess no-one'll notice"

£1 billion of savings the NHS itself says is available through bulk-buying equipment at a cheaper rate. Currently some hospitals pay twice as much as others for equipment like scanners and surgical tools.

Again, why is this something Wes Streeting can sort out any better than say, the head of NHS England? Is he suggesting the Tories are somehow blocking these savings from being implemented? How is Labour going to change anything beyond saying "cool, do that then"?

It's a classic selection of centrist nothing-burgers using the phrasing of "no totems in the NHS" to appeal to other imagined centrists who are just bursting to vote for more NHS reforms, with a privatisation dogwhistle.

Honestly the fucking state of this shite. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[gosub]

Isn't a lot of social done out of council budgets? Which are looking increasingly fucked

 

[Pickman's model]

Isn't a lot of social done out of council budgets? Which are looking increasingly fucked

When the responsibility was handed to local authorities about 12 years ago they weren't given any extra funding

 

[Spandex]

That turd Streeting is on a mission

This is the Wes Streeting who has accepted £193,725 from private health care donors? Not as much as the £295,205 Yvette Cooper has accepted, but more than the £157,500 Sir Keir Starmer has accepted. (link from last June)

They should be made to repay it with interest or barred from having any say on the NHS, the crooked fucks.

 

[teqniq]

Streeting is scum and as I said on the other NHS thread, he is not a fit and proper person to be let anywhere near the levers of power.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Healthcare is different from every other public service in that the more successfully it performs, the more resources it needs.

NICE sort of acknowledges this with quality-adjusted life years, but it barely touches the sides of the fundamental problem that keeping people alive means that they will ultimately need much more healthcare.

I’m not in favour of Logan’s Run or attestupa solutions, and they are unlikely to be vote winners, but you raise an underlying problem which no amount of restructuring can address.

Yes, and this is why maintaining current budgets doesn't work. We need to increase the percentage of wealth and resources dedicated to health care over time. Luckily we in the UK are rich enough as a country to be able to afford to do this. It's simply a question of priorities.

Someone mentioned Germany above. Germany spends considerably more than the UK on healthcare - 11% of GDP compared to 8%, and given that its GDP per capita is higher than the UK's, that amounts to approximately 50% more spending on healthcare per person than the UK. Sure, more money isn't the whole answer, but it is a part of any answer.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is the Wes Streeting who has accepted £193,725 from private health care donors? Not as much as the £295,205 Yvette Cooper has accepted, but more than the £157,500 Sir Keir Starmer has accepted. (link from last June)

They should be made to repay it with interest or barred from having any say on the NHS, the crooked fucks.

they should be made to repay it, the money used to buy gold, and a leaf taken out of george r r martin's game of thrones

once it has been poured down their throats the metal can be recovered from their bodies

 

[Sasaferrato]

QEMH Woolwich.

460 bed military (and civilian) hospital.

The entire nurse management structure was. Matron. Two deputies. Ward Sisters.

I feel that the NHS would do well to emulate that. Keep your most experienced nurse on the wards, but pay them more on an incremental basis.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think funding mechanisms are a bit of a red herring when it comes to the quality of care. There are lots of funding models. Germany and France are primarily funded by mandatory insurance. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, like the UK, are primarily funded through taxation.

There are places with good healthcare funded by insurance and places with good healthcare funded by taxation. That's not the restructuring that is needed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

QEMH Woolwich.

460 bed military (and civilian) hospital.

The entire nurse management structure was. Matron. Two deputies. Ward Sisters.

I feel that the NHS would do well to emulate that. Keep your most experienced nurse on the wards, but pay them more on an incremental basis.

Yeah, my mum, an ex-ward sister, says similar. She's been horrified by the state of some of the wards my dad has been on in recent years. The ward sister was in charge and responsible for keeping things in order and clean.

I don't know enough to say whether she is right or not, but certainly she agrees with you.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yeah, my mum, an ex-ward sister, says similar. She's been horrified by the state of some of the wards my dad has been on in recent years. The ward sister was in charge and responsible for keeping things in order and clean.

I don't know enough to say whether she is right or not, but certainly she agrees with you.

Always listen to your mum.

 

[Callie]

QEMH Woolwich.

460 bed military (and civilian) hospital.

The entire nurse management structure was. Matron. Two deputies. Ward Sisters.

I feel that the NHS would do well to emulate that. Keep your most experienced nurse on the wards, but pay them more on an incremental basis.

When was this though? Do you not think things may have changed a bit?

 

[SpookyFrank]

There are places with good healthcare funded by insurance and places with good healthcare funded by taxation. That's not the restructuring that is needed.

Streeting needs to be restructured into cat food.

 

[teqniq]

(((cats)))

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think it should be obvious really but a simple enough starting point would be to acknowledge that it's an incredibly difficult job and requires some serious work and investment. 'Just make it like it was in 1952' is kind of similar to 'send in the consultants' or the politicians' magical thinking - it's just not that easy is it.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I think it should be obvious really but a simple enough starting point would be to acknowledge that it's an incredibly difficult job and requires some serious work and investment. 'Just make it like it was in 1952' is kind of similar to 'send in the consultants' or the politicians' magical thinking - it's just not that easy is it.

No but to even try and improve the NHS needs good faith actors in positions of power. Streeting is a bad faith actor. He doesn't even pretend not to be.

 

[teqniq]

Yuk:

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I would broadly agree that there is inefficiency in some of the organisation in the NHS. Some of that is directly due to trying to “streamline”/update things to be more efficient. We’re rolling out a new computerised notes system in our trust. It has the potential to make things so much better, but the way it’s been rolled out and the non existent useful (contracted out) training has just eaten into efficiency, and is still doing so 5 months later. Some more of it is just due to the size of trusts. I’m not sure if large private corporations are particularly more efficient.

The multiple letters thing mentioned back in December… Some of that might well be because quite a large proportion of patients don’t actually turn up to appointments.

 

[agricola]

they should be made to repay it, the money used to buy gold, and a leaf taken out of george r r martin's game of thrones

once it has been poured down their throats the metal can be recovered from their bodies

It would also be possible to commemorate the event (and raise funds) by the issuing of a tea-service:

 

[Pickman's model]

Streeting needs to be restructured into cat food.

will no one think of the penguins?

 

[InArduisFouette]

When was this though? Do you not think things may have changed a bit?

40 years ago


25-30 years ago Acute hospitals regardless of civvie or military were 'quicker and sicker'

20 years ago we learnt that dismantling heirarchical working produced 'unexpected survivors' as the model of healthcare delivery on the battlefield was ripped up and written again , which in turn lead to the UK's MTC model ( which despite all the discussion and publicity still has the less than well informed whinging that their tin-pot DGH doesn't have a Casualty dept any more ( when it has a 16 or 24 hour UTC 0 and what if there was a majori accident on the local major road or rail line ( the MTC worthy patients would go the the 2 MTC reachable in an hour by Land , or the other 3 that are less than an hour's flight for Helimed , HMCG (contractor) SAR or military )

 

[Sasaferrato]

When was this though? Do you not think things may have changed a bit?

Yes, it has. The Military Hospitals have been shut. Had they not been, the system would have remained the same.

The army rewarded experience by promotion, which meant more money. The ward sister would normally be a major.

 

[Karl Masks]

Yuk:

Weasley Screeching

 

[InArduisFouette]

Yes, it has. The Military Hospitals have been shut. Had they not been, the system would have remained the same.

The army rewarded experience by promotion, which meant more money. The ward sister would normally be a major.

the military hospitals were frankly dangerous

the military hospitals could not support the military in Operations as Gulf War 1 demonstrated hence the wholesale change in how Deffence secondary healthcare operated in peacetime and at war

the Army does not reward experience by promotion , the Army had failed dismally to acknowledge the skills, knowledge and experience of it's Nursing Staff both regular and reserve for many years