The kulaks are revolting - does Urban back big farmer?

[Saunders]

I trained my dog to pick up my socks and dead mice, and bragged about it to everyone in the village; most of them told me to keep him away from them as he moults white hairs everywhere

 

[Funky_monks]

Very stiff policies and procedures wrt truffles where he is.

So not in the UK? I know we have truffles here but looking for them is a somewhat unusual activity - as in, I've never known of anyone, ever who does it

 

[klang]

So not in the UK? I know we have truffles here but looking for them is a somewhat unusual activity - as in, I've never known of anyone, ever who does it

South of the Alps.

 

[AverageJoe]

(((Caleb)))

 

[Rebecca Riot]

Whilst the former is true, I can't say the latter would be - plenty of people seem to be so very unconcerned by that eventuality, they are happy to have their pooch chase and kill your sheep with no sense that might be in any way their fault.

Speaking as someone who had sheep on a down with public access, of course.

When you see sheep that have been savaged by dogs and left dead and dying you do feel sympathy for the hill farmers, none of who are millionaires as there's very little money in sheep farming, especially since brexit as the EU was their biggest customer.

 

[Funky_monks]

When you see sheep that have been savaged by dogs and left dead and dying you do feel sympathy for the hill farmers, none of who are millionaires as there's very little money in sheep farming, especially since brexit as the EU was their biggest customer.

Lamb prices haven't gone down, quite the opposite - I was a grazier (I rented land on short term lets, ie without secure tenure) and sold up in 2017 because landowners were taking land back in hand because they didn't know what subs would look like post BREXIT. It was predicted that with tariffs, lamb prices would tank in the EU and ergo, here as, just as you said (we are a huge overproducer/exporter of lamb) prices wold follow. They haven't - I was getting £70/head approx for fat lambs then, they have been £120/head at times since then. The EU continues to buy lambs. Hill farming is badly off because its is unproductive - the terrain means you lamb at about 90-110%, so for every ewe you own, you can expect 0.9-1.1 lambs to sell, that's not a lot, especially as hill breeds finish smaller and meat is sold in £/kg. For comparison on a lowland, outdoor (ie lower lambing %age flock), I was rearing at about 160-170%.............

 

[Monte]

It would be a big farm that owned a combine let alone two, rather than lease them, or use a contractor for a few days surely

if you have two combines (book value £1 million so we are led to believe), then you would surely be sweating that asset constantly (perhaps leasing it out to neighbours)

In which case your business is as much leasing machinery as it is farming surely, and why should a leasing business be given an inheritance tax opt out?

I live on a 100 acre farm. The farmer had to buy a replacement combine this year as his £250,1967 Matador broke down.
He was able to buy one from the early '80s for £1,800.

Just as nobody needs to buy a new Aston Martin when they need a car, nobody needs to buy a new tractor or combine unless they are stinking rich. Most small farmers are cash poor.

 

[klang]

Very cool. I'd buy one for 1800, but I'm scared of heights.

 

[Rebecca Riot]

Lamb prices haven't gone down, quite the opposite - I was a grazier (I rented land on short term lets, ie without secure tenure) and sold up in 2017 because landowners were taking land back in hand because they didn't know what subs would look like post BREXIT. It was predicted that with tariffs, lamb prices would tank in the EU and ergo, here as, just as you said (we are a huge overproducer/exporter of lamb) prices wold follow. They haven't - I was getting £70/head approx for fat lambs then, they have been £120/head at times since then. The EU continues to buy lambs. Hill farming is badly off because its is unproductive - the terrain means you lamb at about 90-110%, so for every ewe you own, you can expect 0.9-1.1 lambs to sell, that's not a lot, especially as hill breeds finish smaller and meat is sold in £/kg. For comparison on a lowland, outdoor (ie lower lambing %age flock), I was rearing at about 160-170%.............

I'm glad to hear lamb prices have recovered post brexit as the rural economy still depends very much on farming.

I live in a mixed livestock/dairy farming area but there's been a sharp decline in the number of flocks here, especially at this time of year when they would normally be bringing the sheep down from the hills for lambing. More worrying though is the number of small dairy farms going out of milk production as they say there's no profit in it any more....and that's not just farmers whinging!

 

[Bus Honeygun]

I've generally avoided commenting on this issue, but I will say that as someone who's spent the last two months dealing with Farming Equipment and Technology Fund claims where people buy items sometimes worth as much as £50,000 (often substantially less, to be fair) for their farm to get £25,000 back from the taxpayer I have had the odd wry chuckle.

 

[ska invita]

I've generally avoided commenting on this issue, but I will say that as someone who's spent the last two months dealing with Farming Equipment and Technology Fund claims where people buy items sometimes worth as much as £50,000 (often substantially less, to be fair) for their farm to get £25,000 back from the taxpayer I have had the odd wry chuckle.

Can you explain that? Are you saying people are buying equipment purely for a rebate?

 

[Sue]

Oops, random empty reply.

 

[Bus Honeygun]

Can you explain that? Are you saying people are buying equipment purely for a rebate?

I doubt they're doing it for that alone, but essentially if you can imagine running a business, thinking some machine is worn out or you could do with investing in some new technology, the grant allows you to buy that stuff and typically get around 50% of the average price back.

 

[brogdale]

I doubt they're doing it for that alone, but essentially if you can imagine running a business, thinking some machine is worn out or you could do with investing in some new technology, the grant allows you to buy that stuff and typically get around 50% of the average price back.

Socialising the business costs; nice.

 

[ska invita]

I doubt they're doing it for that alone, but essentially if you can imagine running a business, thinking some machine is worn out or you could do with investing in some new technology, the grant allows you to buy that stuff and typically get around 50% of the average price back.

and whats the wry chuckle bit about? sorry im finding it hard to follow!

 

[brogdale]

and whats the wry chuckle bit about? sorry im finding it hard to follow!

I expect because the whining tax-dodging cunts who are always pleading poverty expect those of us who do have to pay tax to front up half of their equipment costs.

 

[newme]

I live on a 100 acre farm. The farmer had to buy a replacement combine this year as his £250,1967 Matador broke down.
He was able to buy one from the early '80s for £1,800.

Just as nobody needs to buy a new Aston Martin when they need a car, nobody needs to buy a new tractor or combine unless they are stinking rich. Most small farmers are cash poor.

Even clarksons tractor wasn't new!

 

[Bus Honeygun]

I expect because the whining tax-dodging cunts who are always pleading poverty expect those of us who do have to pay tax to front up half of their equipment costs.

Exactly.

I will say that plenty of those claiming are smaller and tenant farmers, organics etc. for whom this money is quite important to keep them going or help them innovate.

 

[Monte]

Very cool. I'd buy one for 1800, but I'm scared of heights.

That's a pic of the 1967 model. The 'new' one has an actual cab.
Can you imagine the noise and the dust coming from the old one?

 

[Monte]

Even clarksons tractor wasn't new!

The oldest working tractor on this farm is a 1950's Fordson Dexta.
Seen here powering the threshing drum.

Every now and then, as a special treat, we use an even older machine to power the drum.
Now that's what you call a second hand combine harvester.

 

[Funky_monks]

I've generally avoided commenting on this issue, but I will say that as someone who's spent the last two months dealing with Farming Equipment and Technology Fund claims where people buy items sometimes worth as much as £50,000 (often substantially less, to be fair) for their farm to get £25,000 back from the taxpayer I have had the odd wry chuckle.

On the other hand, its quite amazing how, when there isn't a scheme that will pay part/all of the cost of a machine, the prices suddenly drop. It's almost like the machinery dealers want a slice of that subsidy.......

 

[brogdale]

On the other hand, its quite amazing how, when there isn't a scheme that will pay part/all of the cost of a machine, the prices suddenly drop. It's almost like the machinery dealers want a slice of that subsidy.......

Yes, corporate welfare helps many owners of the means of production, including farmland owners.

 

[Bus Honeygun]

On the other hand, its quite amazing how, when there isn't a scheme that will pay part/all of the cost of a machine, the prices suddenly drop. It's almost like the machinery dealers want a slice of that subsidy.......

Yeah, don't get me started on the suppliers. I do feel for the smaller farmers who've bought stuff from them boasting 'eligible for FETF-whatever' when it's not. Not the supplier's problem anymore when we get nit-picky about discs on a straw harrow or whatever...

 

[newme]

The oldest working tractor on this farm is a 1950's Fordson Dexta.
Seen here powering the threshing drum.

Every now and then, as a special treat, we use an even older machine to power the drum.
Now that's what you call a second hand combine harvester.

Yeh I meant the lambo.

 

[Funky_monks]

Yes, corporate welfare helps many owners of the means of production, including farmland owners.

This is the opposite of corporate welfare though isn't it?

There's quite a good argument that food production and land ownership are two very different businesses - firstly, farmers can be and often are tenants, so they lease the means of production (as I did) and secondly, the ROI on buying land just to grow food on it makes no sense financially whatsoever.

 

[brogdale]

This is the opposite of corporate welfare though isn't it?

There's quite a good argument that food production and land ownership are two very different businesses - firstly, farmers can be and often are tenants, so they lease the means of production (as I did) and secondly, the ROI on buying land just to grow food on it makes no sense financially whatsoever.

No, and the state records that just 14% of UK farms are wholly tenanted and over 50% are owner occupied.

 

[Funky_monks]

No, and the state records that just 14% of UK farms are wholly tenanted and over 50% are owner occupied.

Yes, so at least half have to rent in some (or all) ground to be viable - dunno what your point is really?

 

[brogdale]

Yes, so at least half have to rent in some (or all) ground to be viable - dunno what your point is really?

No, not at least half. Only 14% of farms are wholly tenanted and a further 31% had some mixed tenancy. My point was that, nationally, the majority of farmers are the owners of the means of production and in the SW & SE that figure becomes even higher.

 

[Funky_monks]

No, not at least half. Only 14% of farms are wholly tenanted and a further 31% had some mixed tenancy. My point was that, nationally, the majority of farmers are the owners of the means of production and in the SW & SE that figure becomes even higher.

Only just - 14 + 31 = 45% tenanted either in whole or in part.

Why is the SW and E relevant to this conversation?

 

[brogdale]

Only just - 14 + 31 = 45% tenanted either in whole or in part.

Why is the SW and E relevant to this conversation?

Alright, using the broadest definition of tenanted farms, we can see that 45% of farmers would not be affected by IHT. Of those that might be liable, the majority will be those that own their own, large arable units in the South and a East where farmland is most valuable. Always good to explore the veracity of the whinging tax-dodgers claims.