Anyone else feel like the NHS almost doesn't exist for them any more?

[story]

There has been a huge drive in my area to raise awareness regarding prostate cancer. Personally driven by the surgical urology consultant - a black man. He does a seminar, open to tge public and his leaflet comes through my door.

Also over the last five years or so I have definitely noticed an increase of black men coming in for a RALP (Robot Assisted Laparoscopic Prosectomy) and other prostate related procedures.
So awareness is increasing.

Like you, in the last 5 -ish years I’ve noticed Black men increasingly unconcerned about getting their prostate checked. The change seemed quite sudden.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Finally heard from a doctor, six weeks and change after first asking for an appointment to see one. The doctor had glanced at my x-ray, decided there wasn't a problem, and told me in a text message that was misspelled to the point of being unreadable that I should either see a physio (seen two already, neither knew what was wrong) or just go away.

Asked again for an appointment to see a real actual doctor in real life. 15th October is the next one.

I get that the doctors are busy. I know that's not their fault. But they get paid a fuckton more than I do for comparable hours and workload and I would never have so little professional pride or basic decency as to send someone a misspelled text message to tell them about something that's profoundly affecting their life. Especially if I was telling them I can't be bothered to do anything about it, despite that being the job for which I get paid the aforesaid fuckton of money.

 

[ghost boy]

Finally heard from a doctor, six weeks and change after first asking for an appointment to see one. The doctor had glanced at my x-ray, decided there wasn't a problem, and told me in a text message that was misspelled to the point of being unreadable that I should either see a physio (seen two already, neither knew what was wrong) or just go away.

Asked again for an appointment to see a real actual doctor in real life. 15th October is the next one.

I get that the doctors are busy. I know that's not their fault. But they get paid a fuckton more than I do for comparable hours and workload and I would never have so little professional pride or basic decency as to send someone a misspelled text message to tell them about something that's profoundly affecting their life. Especially if I was telling them I can't be bothered to do anything about it, despite that being the job for which I get paid the aforesaid fuckton of money.

Wasn’t in text talk was it?

As in: Cum 2 Surgey asap

 

[ghost boy]

Why?
Because the principle of universal socialised healthcare is to make healthcare free at the point of delivery. That should, of course, apply to any medications or treatments prescribed and did, until Gaitskell ditched it to spend on the Korean War instead.

How would a few years payment on UN aide to Korea affect the establishment of an ongoing, taxed service offered to the public?

 

[brogdale]

How would a few years payment on UN aide to Korea affect the establishment of an ongoing, taxed service offered to the public?

Wasn't aid, but rearming. In essence prescriptions free at the point of delivery, were victim to the age-old internecine, factional warfare within the LP essentially using the myth of household economics to stymie socialist policy.

The NHS had been established by the post-war Labour government in 1948. By 1951, there were already heavy pressures on health spending. In addition, after the Korean War broke out in 1950, Britain decided to rearm. In his budget, the Chancellor, Hugh Gaitskell, sought to balance his budget by imposing charges on false teeth and spectacles. Two cabinet ministers resigned in protest – Aneurin Bevan, architect of the health service, and Harold Wilson, the future Prime Minister. The crisis provoked a running battle between Left and Right in the Labour Party which lasted for over forty years.

Source. (Bogdanor = no socialist)

 

[brogdale]

Though, in truth, it was austerity advocate, Stifford Crapps, who first attacked the notion of full socialised healthcare, free at the point of delivery, in 1949:

By 1949, proposals were already being made to try and dilute the truly free notion of the NHS, fearing that the overspending seen in its first year would be permanent, a fear that would prove unfounded.

The then-Prime Minister Clement Atlee, under pressure from Chancellor of the Exchequer Stafford Cripps, introduced in the NHS Amendment Act 1949 a one-shilling charge for each prescription, but the opposition to its introduction was intense.

Its biggest critic, and the one that managed to block prescription charges, was Nye Bevan himself, who threatened to resign if they were brought in.

In 1951, in the wake of the Korean War, Hugh Gaitskell and Foreign Secretary Herbert Morrison brought in the first charges for prescription glasses and dentures, and true to his word, Mr Bevan resigned in protest.

The next year, Winston Churchill introduced a universal charge on prescriptions.

 

[Elpenor]

Still think of all the guns and bombs they got for the money

 

[mentalchik]

Finally heard from a doctor, six weeks and change after first asking for an appointment to see one. The doctor had glanced at my x-ray, decided there wasn't a problem, and told me in a text message that was misspelled to the point of being unreadable that I should either see a physio (seen two already, neither knew what was wrong) or just go away.

Asked again for an appointment to see a real actual doctor in real life. 15th October is the next one.

I get that the doctors are busy. I know that's not their fault. But they get paid a fuckton more than I do for comparable hours and workload and I would never have so little professional pride or basic decency as to send someone a misspelled text message to tell them about something that's profoundly affecting their life. Especially if I was telling them I can't be bothered to do anything about it, despite that being the job for which I get paid the aforesaid fuckton of money.

This is more or less what has happened to me.....if i hadn't tearfully insisted on seeing a GP that day after being shrugged off and left not knowing what to do i would never have seen the GP i did who was the first one to actually fully examine me and realise that i actually had something serious going on and who also told me that my MRI and x-ray made no sense ( they botched it) and referred me to the ortho dept at the hospital.

 

[SpookyFrank]

This is more or less what has happened to me.....if i hadn't tearfully insisted on seeing a GP that day after being shrugged off and left not knowing what to do i would never have seen the GP i did who was the first one to actually fully examine me and realise that i actually had something serious going on and who also told me that my MRI and x-ray made no sense ( they botched it) and referred me to the ortho dept at the hospital.

I absolutely hate making a nuisance of myself but it often feels like you have to do it to get anywhere. I worry about those who aren't able to advocate for themselves.

I hope everything works out for you.

 

[GarveyLives]

Anyone else feel like the NHS almost doesn't exist for them any more?​

One wonders how the friends and family of The Late Marina Young feel about the issue.

Dr James Adeley, senior coroner for Lancashire has ruled that a disabled woman who spent 39 hours on a chair in a busy A&E waiting for a hospital bed died due to neglect, and has also issued a prevention of future deaths report, ordering the hospital to make changes to stop similar deaths occurring in the future.

The Late Marina Young was suffering from an asthma attack when she was taken to the Royal Preston Hospital, in Lancashire:

(Source: The family of The Late Marina Young) ​

A&E doctor 'refused' to see woman before she died

(Source: as stated in image)​

A spokesman for Lancashire Teaching Hospitals, which runs the Royal Preston Hospital, said:

‘The Trust would like to offer its sincere condolences to the family and friends of Marina Young and apologise for the failings identified in our own investigation and the Coroner’s report.

‘We welcome the independent scrutiny of the Coroner and are committed to the further actions and learning identified in the inquest.’

 

[brogdale]

One wonders how the friends and family of The Late Marina Young feel about the issue.

Dr James Adeley, senior coroner for Lancashire has ruled that a disabled woman who spent 39 hours on a chair in a busy A&E waiting for a hospital bed died due to neglect, and has also issued a prevention of future deaths report, ordering the hospital to make changes to stop similar deaths occurring in the future.

The Late Marina Young was suffering from an asthma attack when she was taken to the Royal Preston Hospital, in Lancashire:

(Source: The family of The Late Marina Young) ​

A&E doctor 'refused' to see woman before she died

(Source: as stated in image)​

A spokesman for Lancashire Teaching Hospitals, which runs the Royal Preston Hospital, said:

‘The Trust would like to offer its sincere condolences to the family and friends of Marina Young and apologise for the failings identified in our own investigation and the Coroner’s report.

‘We welcome the independent scrutiny of the Coroner and are committed to the further actions and learning identified in the inquest.’

Appalling, and probably an appropriate point to remind ourselves that for 2/3 of it's entire 76 year existence the NHS has been controlled and funded by administrations that have explicitly governed in the interests of neoliberal capital.

 

[not a trot]

fingers crossed for you

Had the camera up the bum procedure this morning, all went well, and no concerns. Gotta say, staff were brilliant.

 

[gentlegreen]

A surgeon at a crisis-hit NHS trust used a Swiss Army penknife to open up the chest of a patient because he claimed he could not find a sterile scalpel.

Royal Sussex Hospital in Brighton

Police are separately looking into at least 105 cases of alleged medical negligence at the trust and considering gross negligence manslaughter and corporate manslaughter charges.

Brighton: Surgeon operated with penknife he uses to cut up lunch

A surgeon is alleged to have used a Swiss Army knife because he could not find a sterile scalpel.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LakieLady]

My GP is normally pretty good but the system they use for booking appointments is bizarre. I saw a GP last week who said I needed to book a blood test at reception on my way out. The receptionist looked at the computer and said they didn't have anything for a month (for a blood test FFS) but that she could see there were appointments available next week on the NHS app but that she was not able to book one for me. So I took out my phone and booked an appointment while standing there. I assume if I hadn't registered for the NHS app or didn't have a smartphone, I'd have had to wait another three weeks

I think digital exclusion is a real issue in accessing the NHS.

I've seen how it works with Universal Credit: a lot of people only have a phone for accessing the internet and it's difficult to navigate because software was designed for use on a computer. Uploading documents is a nightmare from a phone, it's hard to take a decent pic of (eg) the several pages of a tenancy agreement and then upload them successfully, and very often they then get a reply saying it's illegible and can they resend. Same applies to uploading evidence when doing online PIP applications.

My surgery prefers patients to use the NHS Anima app, although you can request an appointment through the surgery's own website. I used it for the first time yesterday, and it's bloody laborious; you have to go through screen after screen of irrelevant symptoms with no guarantee that the thing that concerns you will even be in the list.

It worked well for me though, I sent the request at around 10am yesterday, the surgery phoned me around 2.30 and I saw the doc at 9.30 this morning.

 

[GarveyLives]

Anyone else feel like the NHS almost doesn't exist for them any more?​

"Even in Romania, older people wouldn't be treated like this."

So says the niece of an 86 year-old ...

"An 86-year-old woman who had suffered a suspected heart attack waited 25 hours in a hospital corridor for a ward bed - before giving up and going home."

Gran, 86, suspected of having heart attack waits 25 hours in St Helier corridor

 

[brogdale]

Where we are, FFS...

 

[Eric Jarvis]

I recommend looking at the bios of the trustees on NHS trusts. It's telling how many over the entire country have a military, banking or retail background.

 

[Looby]

I’m generally really happy with my GP practice and been seeing the same doctor pretty much all my life. When I’ve needed urgent help I’ve got it, even in lockdowns.

The fucking system is shambolic though and creates so much more work than it saves.

I have a number of prescriptions. Some can be ordered 4 weekly and some 8. Until I log in to order them I might not realise some are due for review (all at different times) and I can’t order them without a GP appointment so I run out. I will also have meds to order from the CMHT soon. I have ADHD and am so overwhelmed with the admin involved.

I send a form detailing my ongoing neck/shoulder issues. They ask what I want and if I have any specific questions but didn’t answer them and send me an appointment by text.

I call as you can’t reply to the text and I can’t do that appointment and spend 30 minutes waiting in a queue to change it.

I need blood tests and my B12 (which is late because I can’t keep up with all the appointments).
When I tried to book I was given two separate appointments because there is no-one who can do both things. It was such a battle to get both on the same day in the same place and when I got there, it could easily have been done in the same appointment. I then tried to book the GP follow up from the bloods and the appointments weren’t open.

Then I get a call today to book the bloods I’ve already had done and the follow up and when I called back I couldn’t get through. It’s just so shit!

 

[GarveyLives]

Anyone else feel like the NHS almost doesn't exist for them any more?​

It certainly seems so:

Black cancer patients in England less likely to feel supported in hospital, says charity

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It’s taken 18 months for my partner to get a major operation. This included getting bumped out of the queue, files being lost, letters not being sent until chased etc.

Coincidentally or not she finally got a date in December around the time she started a formal complaint.

The actual procedure was superb and the recovery in hospital was fine. (And she is ok, but still on the road to recovery…)

I do think the system is just not adequate for the volume of demands. So people who make a fuss or are good at navigating bureaucracy will get a better service.

 

[weltweit]

I was sent an NHS form permitting me to chose a clinic to be seen at. One local and the other in the next town. Initially I was booked into the next town and the internet informed me that they had a 170 day wait for appointments. This didn't sound good so I looked at the local department. 340 days

 

[brogdale]

I was sent an NHS form permitting me to chose a clinic to be seen at. One local and the other in the next town. Initially I was booked into the next town and the internet informed me that they had a 170 day wait for appointments. This didn't sound good so I looked at the local department. 340 days

The utter nonsense of the marketised thatcher/blairite dream of patient "choice"; the choice of shit sandwiches

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I feel like I fall through lots of gaps because hospital and GP services still aren't very joined up.

* I recently had a pre-op appointment for a gynae procedure. I had one in the summer and they said I had to go to the sleep clinic for sleep monitoring, and had to wear a monitor overnight then take it back. It wasn't until this more recent pre-op appointment that the gynae nurse looked through my notes and mentioned that I'm supposed to be on a CPAP oxygen machine at night for sleep apnoea!

I'd never been given the results and nor had my GP.

* I'd requested an assessment for ADHD years ago but was aware that the waiting lists are extreeeeeemely long. I mentioned in a recent GP appointment that I hadn't heard anything. * GP taps away on computer * Then says something about not having received a form back from me, I say I don't recall receiving a form and when was it sent? * GP taps away and says they've emailed it to me now and can I complete it. * So reading between the lines and GP skirting the question about when the previous form was sent, I'm guessing the previous form wasn't sent to me.

So I've spent three years thinking I was on a waiting list when I wasn't. You might wonder why I bother, because I'm already diagnosed autistic, but you can't get prescribed medication for autism, only ADHD, and so many people have reported that they feel the benefits of medication, it makes a huge difference to their lives and ability to function and to do adulting.

* A few years ago, I had some EMDR therapy for Complex PTSD. My therapist said that I could get referred back to him if I wanted. I recently asked for a referral, because I've still got a stumbling block in that I still find some things triggering and traumatising.

Except my GP has to refer me to some mental health gateway, so I had to have an assessment for the 'Step 2' services and be rejected/ re-referred by them to the 'Step 3' service for EMDR therapy. What a waste of time and resources, to faff around referring me to a service that I don't want or need because I have to jump through that hoop in order to get back to the service that's already previously treated me and which specifically said I could get referred back to them. Wtf.

 

[weltweit]

The utter nonsense of the marketised thatcher/blairite dream of patient "choice"; the choice of shit sandwiches

I can remember another choice situation at which I had to ask the NHS person offering me the choice, I have no idea what will be better, please advise me!

 

[weltweit]

I feel like I fall through lots of gaps because hospital and GP services still aren't very joined up.

* I recently had a pre-op appointment for a gynae procedure. I had one in the summer and they said I had to go to the sleep clinic for sleep monitoring, and had to wear a monitor overnight then take it back. It wasn't until this more recent pre-op appointment that the gynae nurse looked through my notes and mentioned that I'm supposed to be on a CPAP oxygen machine at night for sleep apnoea!
..

Welcome to the CPAP club AnnO'Neemus, there are quite a few on urban.

If you have suffered from tiredness during the day, a CPAP mask can make a big difference.

 

[pbsmooth]

Various kids appointments and illnesses over the last couple of months and it’s once again clear how much of a mess it is. None of the different services seem to work together, results get lost, appointments get moved, impossible to speak to anyone, long waits when you get in, lots of people sitting around who can’t help you etc. I find being in hospitals so anxiety inducing I would pay to go private and get some sort of service if it was cheaper - and that’s what they want!

 

[Boo Radley75]

For reasons I don't want to go into right now (too painful) I see the state of the NHS as a national emergency which no party is taking seriously enough. A lot of the problem I see is GPs just sitting around, only giving phone appointments which invariably ends up with the solution "go to A&E" and completely and unnecessarily overwhelm them.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It’s now been almost 4 months since my MRI and no follow up letter

It’s been almost 5 since an audiology referral

 

[nottsgirl]

My GP is pretty good. There’s an online form that opens at 8.30 and closes when they are full, I don’t know what time but I’ve been able to fill it out at 9.30 before. Then you either get a call back or appointment that day. I definitely don’t think they are just sitting around. Of course it’s not ideal if you don’t have internet access, I don’t know if you can still ring up in that case.

 

[LDC]

For reasons I don't want to go into right now (too painful) I see the state of the NHS as a national emergency which no party is taking seriously enough. A lot of the problem I see is GPs just sitting around, only giving phone appointments which invariably ends up with the solution "go to A&E" and completely and unnecessarily overwhelm them.

I work in a GP practice (not a doctor but see patients). I come in for 8.45am (even though I start at 9.30am) to get on top of the outstanding blood and test results and what might need doing as there isn't time in the day. I start seeing patients at 9.30am and I get 15 minutes (assuming they're not late which many are) to take a history, ask some questions, examine, diagnose and give a presciption and/or advice, book follow-up tests or appointments and then do any referrals needed. Complicated referrals I don't have time to do so put them in a short admin slot later in the day to do then. I get a 30 minute lunch break but we don't get them as we all have a clinical team meeting that takes an hour to go through adult and child safeguarding issues, mortality reviews, new cancer diagnoses, etc. etc. Then it's back to seeing patients in the afternoon until I go home at 6pm.

We do some phone appointments which are generally popular with patients as it saves them coming in. Yes, some people get sent to A&E (very few, I maybe send 1-2 people a week from phone and face-to-face appointments) as there are some things that need checking out/testing for/treating that we can't do. You probably just don't get this (as many patients don't) or understand the underlying thing we are concerned about.

I am thinking of leaving primary care (and medicine) this coming year. Some of the frustrating and completely demoralising things are:

1) Being shouted at and threatened by patients for not doing what they want, eg. demanding antibiotics for viral illnesses, being angry when not given an appointment because they've had cold symptoms for 24 hours, or not having an immediate fix for their long term problem.

2) Currently we have a 20% 'did not attend' rate for appointments. It's crept up from 5-10% as standard the last 6 months. And people wonder why there are no appointments left.

3) People coming in demanding specialist referrals and then sometimes not even attending them when they get the appointment through. This is especially bad for dermatology/physio/MSK issues. They often then come back in asking for a re-referral a few months down the line.

4) People being given advice for what to do, then at their follow-up appointment admitting they've done none of what they were advised to do and being annoyed they haven't got better.

5) We have had loads of social programs; community walking groups, weight loss, exercise classes, education stuff. Pretty much zero engagement or involvement from people.

6) Patients repeatedly using services inappropriately. I sometimes see someone early in the week, send them home with a diagnosis and treatment/advice, then they come back in again later in the week, and in the intervening time they've gone to A&E. Often for a cold or sore knee or similar. I understand people do this for complex reasons, but there needs to be some responsibility on people for understanding and caring for their own health as well.

7) We have a constant issue where patients are trying to 'medicalize' their issues and wanting tablets to fix a problem that actually needs them to change some aspect/s of their lifestyle. It's the complete opposite of what people I talk to outside the NHS often complain about. We really do look holistically at things that need that (not everything does tbh), but ime patients are often very resistant to that and want easy answers. A friend has started saying that patients want 'Amazon Prime' levels of delivery to fix long term often complicated issues.

Yes, the system if fucked, I agree and it's not being taken seriously (and probably can't be under the current structural set-up). There's loads that could be done to fix it, even within the realms of tinkering about rather than having a wholesale re-structuring of society, which is what needs to happen to fix the health problems we have as much are related to work (or lack of it), poverty (including things like weight/obseity), patriarchy, poor housing, lack of health education and mental health & functional illness issues that we're not going to fix by looking at the NHS/health system in isolation from the rest of society.

But moaning that GPs just 'sit about' and give phone appointments and sending people to A&E unnecessarily is so fucking clueless it's a fucking joke. The NHS seems to be the only workplace where it's OK for people on the left to blame the workers for the state of things.