A new mass party of the left (Jan 2025 edition)! Collective / Fightback

[PTK]

I think it fair to mock, but I think it wrong to hurl abuse at the people involved.

 

[emanymton]

I think it fair to mock, but I think it wrong to hurl abuse at the people involved.

Sure, and also I hope I'm wrong and it is an amazing success.

Don't think I will be though.

 

[Sue]

I think it fair to mock, but I think it wrong to hurl abuse at the people involved.

I don't see why we can't do both...?

 

[PTK]

I don't see why we can't do both...?

Because the people involved are not horrible.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Because the people involved are not horrible.

Are you sure? If they're politicians the likelihood is they're despicable people, or soon will be.

 

[PTK]

Are you sure? If they're politicians the likelihood is they're despicable people, or soon will be.

Is not everyone who makes a comment on this thread a "politician", and therefore despicable?

 

[LDC]

Is not everyone who makes a comment on this thread a "politician", and therefore despicable?

Clearly not, we're interested (and maybe active) in politics, that's not being a 'politician' unless you decide to give it a different meaning.

Are you sure? If they're politicians the likelihood is they're despicable people, or soon will be.

Because the people involved are not horrible.

Those are both totally irrelevant, like all politicians it's got nothing to do (or shouldn't have) with their personality, criticising them is a political position.

Also, (thanks hitmouse) this is worth a listen to on the question of organisation & left wing political parties Ep 3: The Political Leap – Workers' Inquiry – Podcast

 

[PTK]

Clearly not, we're interested (and maybe active) in politics, that's not being a 'politician' unless you decide to give it a different meaning.

Well, if people are active in politics, they are just as much politicians as the people behind this new initiative. The people invovlved in this thing are not being paid.

 

[ska invita]

You haven't joined the Greens though have you?

I haven't got time/desire for being actively in political parties. But many do.
If I was forced at gun point to be involved with one in this country then I would.
I've said this more than once, its a party ripe for entryism with one member one vote at conference, and already has a significant number of ecosocialists within it. Ever growing climate crisis makes it perfectly positioned.
And there is no other alternative in this country.

 

[The39thStep]

I haven't got time/desire for being actively in political parties. But many do.
If I was forced at gun point to be involved with one in this country then I would.
I've said this more than once, its a party ripe for entryism with one member one vote at conference, and already has a significant number of ecosocialists within it. Ever growing climate crisis makes it perfectly positioned.
And there is no other alternative in this country.

Yup you keep on saying that there is no alternative to the Greens and I think that many people if they were forced at gun point to join would agree with you.

Any feedback from those who joined/ entered through the more normal route after following your advice?

 

[Santino]

Is not everyone who makes a comment on this thread a "politician", and therefore despicable?

No. HTH.

 

[emanymton]

Is not everyone who makes a comment on this thread a "politician", and therefore despicable?

I'm not a politician, but I am despicable.

 

[Rob Ray]

Well, if people are active in politics, they are just as much politicians as the people behind this new initiative. The people invovlved in this thing are not being paid.

I occasionally delve into statistics, this does not however make me a statistician, which is a specific job.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Never even heard of most of those groups but can't see it going anywhere if Just Stop Oil are involved. Even my local Green Party can't stand them.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I still say everyone would be better off piling in to the Greens and turning it into an explicitly ecosocialist party

In fact the Greens are an explicitly centralist pro-capitalist party tailing the Glib Dems. Which is why I left…

 

[Wilf]

I'd be more encouraged if the starting point was something like the Enough is Enough campaign, seeking to link union action to community organising. Well, not that, because it never actually happened, but that idea. Making a party a consequence of working class organisation and presence, not a starting point.

 

[Cerv]

I think if we get to the point of forcing people at gun point to join political parties then the country's already fucked

 

[Saul Goodman]

I think if we get to the point of forcing people at gun point to join political parties then the country's already fucked

Maybe we could reverse that and force political parties, at gunpoint, to join the people.

 

[Wilf]

Maybe we could reverse that and force political parties, at gunpoint, to join the people.

Hmmm, you might be on to something here.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Is this the thing Eric Jarvis mentioned a few weeks ago?

Kind of, but presented, so far as I can see, largely through a prism of total speculation and partisan group self interest, as far as I am aware by people who aren't actually directly involved in any of it. There are public announcements coming next weekend and on or around the 25th. In the meantime there will be loads of speculation on the basis of either wishful thinking, celebrity politics, and self promotion by assorted left groups, almost all being total nonsense.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

You haven't joined the Greens though have you?

My friends in the Green Party are largely of the opinion that it is increasingly top down, so I'm not at all sure that would work.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I hear that the St Albans Socialist Circle (Marxist-Leninist) is also interested, so there is hope that this will succeed.

I think you'll find that it is actually the St Albans Shining Path (victory to Gonzalo thought) who are interested...please keep up.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice