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Transform: The latest "new party of the Left.

Yes, it is not good to blame others for not supporting you.

As for people who split from the Labour Party.
There are two kinds of left-wing departures, in my experience, which we may call negative or positive. For some, their split from the Labour Party (or any other left-wing party) is part of a process of disillusionment to leads to them becoming politically inactive, where for others it enthuses them. For the former, difficulties faced by the new political group can be the straws that break the back of their political commitment.

In a wider perspective, internationally, and historically, splits that occur as a result of an upsurge in political struggle go on to prosper, where those that come simply from disgust at a right-ward drift and betrayal do not prosper.

Why did the Socialist Labour Party of Arthur Scargill not receive more support than it did when it was founded? Scargill was actually an undemocratic Stalinist, but from a distance his politics looked good to many people, but they felt no urgent need to join. There was no ongoing struggle that enthused masses of people, of which the SLP was an expression, with large numbers of people desperate to become involved.

The SLP was born, not from successful struggles, but from defeat. It was formed (in a top-down way, of course) in reaction to the abandonment of the old Clause IV part 4 of the Labour Party Rule Book, which had stated that the party was committed to the common ownership of the means of production. It was formed in reaction to that defeat, and in a period of wider defeats for the working class and left-wing ideas. The defeat of the 1984-85 miners strike, and the triumph of neo-liberal capitalism and discredit of what was seen to be socialism.

The same applies to the Socialist Alliance. The Socialist Alliance could have built on the mass support for the movement against the Iraq war, but the SWP decided to keep it under wraps during those protests, as their conception was that it should only be rolled out at elections, with little activity between elections. The SWP then junked the Socialist Alliance in favour of forming a “get rich quick” scheme with George Galloway, called Respect. Respect did have some success, and the reason it did so was that it built on the mobilisation against the Iraq war.

What was wrong with Respect? How do you know that any new group is not going to have similar problems?

The key thing is to clearly define what any new party stands for, and to ensure that its elected Councillors and/or MPs adhere to that policy. There needs to be a clause stating that if any elected official does not follow party policy, then they are expelled.
 
Don't doubt any of that. Sounds horrific! but what if tens of thousands joined? Also possibility for a generational switch. There needs to be some kind of electoral vehicle....

Anyhow let's see what happens with the Transformers
The Greens are run by a shallow centralist pro-capitalist clique. I should know, I was a member for 20 years until I left in disgust…
 
It's there a precedent for expulsions? Genuine question, I've no idea
There is a great intolerance of Left ideas going back to Green 2000. And have you met many GP members? Like Lib Dems sadly. I agree Green Left tries but frankly oftendisappears up its own fundament. But if you want to join, good luck
 
There is a great intolerance of Left ideas going back to Green 2000. And have you met many GP members? Like Lib Dems sadly. I agree Green Left tries but frankly oftendisappears up its own fundament. But if you want to join, good luck
im not going to join no, but if I had the inclination to get involved in electoral politics I can see the case for it over other options
im aware of the divide, ive met some of the Green Left group
 
There is a great intolerance of Left ideas going back to Green 2000.
Surely it depends what you compare it to? Compared to the current version of the Labour Party the Green Party manifesto seems further left, so it seems the party is more tolerant of the left than Starmer's Labour. They also resolve to do things like removing shareholder value as the bottom line for corporations (albeit from a situation where they don't have to enact that or deal with the blowback), which would be a sharper attack on capital than most of what Corbyn proposed. Their failure is in not being a movement-based party any more, but we don't have a movement-based party at all in this country so it's a reflection on political cultures here as much as on them.

Anyway, this is probably a thread derail. We should start a thread on the green party I guess.
 
Wasn't he Northern Independence Party? Which I could never quite work out if it was a serious party or just a statement.
Yep.

I think NIP needs/ed more time.

...but I fear and understand the long haul isn't really a goer for many these days.
 
I'd go so far as to suggest the impetus to set up a new party, for many, is because they haven't the stomach for a long haul approach.
If I was being charitable I would say it is not lack of stomach but that this feels urgent. We need change now not in 10 or 20 years or longer. But that has always been the case and get rich quick schemes have got us nowhere.

Plus I do pretty much fuck all thse days beyond wander to the odd demo someone else put the work into. So I should not criticise anyone who actual tries to do something really.
 
If I was being charitable I would say it is not lack of stomach but that this feels urgent. We need change now not in 10 or 20 years or longer. But that has always been the case and get rich quick schemes have got us nowhere.

Plus I do pretty much fuck all thse days beyond wander to the odd demo someone else put the work into. So I should not criticise anyone who actual tries to do something really.
Me too.

I'd have joined the NIP if I lived in the North maybe though.
 
NIP realised they were going nowhere after they failed to get anywhere with their indie candidate in a town with a strong indie tradition - Hartlepool failed to achieve anything above the low triple digits. I quite liked NIP and Breakthrough but agree they were get rich quick schemes
 
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