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Collective - new left wing party?

I suppose it's a bit now or never. Like it or not, Corbyn is a galvanising force, Corbynistas and other socialists and left-wingers will be more likely to bandy together.

If they wait until maybe Corbyn retires (or dies, he is getting on a bit after all), then they don't have another charismatic person who would be a shoe-in for a leadership role.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
I suppose it's a bit now or never. Like it or not, Corbyn is a galvanising force, Corbynistas and other socialists and left-wingers will be more likely to bandy together.
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It’s hard not to share the cynicism on this thread and even harder to look at those invited and not be even more cynical.

But, the above from Ann O is correct. Less than 20% of the electorate voted Labour after 14 years of a rotten to the core Tory Government. Millions voted for parties purportedly to the left of Labour.

What passes for a left of the Parliamentary Labour Party is in the process of being ejected. 5 years of Starmer managerialism will further energise the populist right who will see support rocket. Support for the two establishment parties is dying and isn’t going to recover. What’s left of the left outside of Labour is dying.

So, it is now or never.

The question of whether a Corbyn led project is the right vehicle is a different question though. Personally, my view is that any party committed to parliamentary politics and comprised and led by those at this event is destined to fail.
 
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Yeah, pretty much exactly my thoughts - I don't expect this to go anywhere, can't see myself putting any effort into it, and so on.
But, to be soft and wishywashy about it, I do reckon that any opposition to Starmerism from the left is a good thing, if this lot can do anything to popularise or make visible a critique of Starmer's policies based on solid principles, rather than the "the government is letting pensioners freeze because they're giving all the money to pensioners and greedy trade unionists" narrative that the right are already pushing, then good luck to them I suppose.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Personally, my view is that any party committed to parliamentary politics and comprised and led by those at this event is destined to fail.
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chilango said:
It's not "now or never".

It was "then or never".

Far too hesitant, far too late.

It was likely to fail then.

It's certain to fail now.
Click to expand...

I strongly suspect, going by all their pro-Starmer posts and opposition to Corbyn, that the OP thinks it will fail too.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
It’s hard not to share the cynicism on this thread and even harder to look at those invited and not be even more cynical.

But, the above from Ann O is correct. Less than 20% of the electorate voted Labour after 14 years of a rotten to the core Tory Government. Millions voted for parties purportedly to the left of Labour.

What passes for a left of the Parliamentary Labour Party is in the process of being ejected. 5 years of Starmer managerialism will further energise the populist right who will see support for them rocket. Support for the two establishment parties is dying and isn’t going to recover. What’s left of the left outside of Labour is dying.

So, it is now or never.

The question of whether a Corbyn led project is the right vehicle is a different question though. Personally, my view is that any party committed to parliamentary politics and comprised and led by those at this event is destined to fail.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Well, next time, either people will turn to the right, or they will reflect on all the 'If you're a socialist/Corbynista but if you don't vote Starmer to vote Labour to vote the Tories out you're a cunt' rhetoric and think 'Where did that get us? No repeal of the two child benefits cap that didn't tackle child poverty and left children hungry. Cuts to the Winter Fuel Payment that killed old people. All to prove Labour is fiscally responsible, ie keep the bankers/markets happy? Fuck that.'

It's clear that the Labour Party under Starmer, Reeves and Streeting et al is no longer for 'the working classes' or the poor.

So what's the alternative? I sort of agree with "The question of whether a Corbyn led project is the right vehicle is a different question though. Personally, my view is that any party committed to parliamentary politics and comprised and led by those at this event is destined to fail."

It's a bit SDP-ish.

Personally, my opinion is that anyone who seeks political power is generally the kind of person who shouldn't be entrusted with it. To me, Corbyn seems to be a genuinely kind-hearted, anti-war, of the people and for the people kind of person. But he is part of the system of parliamentary politics, and as such destined to fail.
 
with Corbyn involved, does this officially count as a split from Labour? or does his time outside the party preclude that?
need to update the giant Visio chart of minor leftwing parties.
 
hitmouse said:
Yeah, pretty much exactly my thoughts - I don't expect this to go anywhere, can't see myself putting any effort into it, and so on.
But, to be soft and wishywashy about it, I do reckon that any opposition to Starmerism from the left is a good thing, if this lot can do anything to popularise or make visible a critique of Starmer's policies based on solid principles, rather than the "the government is letting pensioners freeze because they're giving all the money to pensioners and greedy trade unionists" narrative that the right are already pushing, then good luck to them I suppose.
Click to expand...
Yeah, agreed. I'm not a party political person, so I'm not going to put any effort into it. I do, however, have a fair few friends who are lefties ranging from soft left to raging lefties who joined the party during the Corbyn era and who (nearly?) all have withdrawn or been expelled, some holding on for much longer, but the right-wing 'Starmeristas' eventually did for them, either by their own volition or by force.

As for the bold bit, I fear it's wishful thinking at this stage. Starmerism and Reevesonomics has gotten such a strong foothold in the Labour Party that anyone to the left of them is considered beyond the pale and expellable. You're either with them, or you're against them. It's a bit like the Labour Party equivalent of McCarthyism, sadly.
 
stethoscope said:
So, you didnt want any prominent left within Labour, but welcome a left alternative outside because its good for 'democracy'?! :D
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I want an effective well organised left party for those who want one. For people like me a centrist Labour Party already exists. But until the left can be a proper electoral force on its own terms outside the party the chances of PR happening are lower.
 
PR1Berske said:
In the lifespan of Urban there has been deep breath Socialist Alliance, Socialist Alternative, Socialist Labour, Respect, Left List, IWCP (?), Scottish Socialist Party, TUSC, Solidarity, Workers Party.....One more might not work.
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They said themselves this might be the last real chance and they can’t repeat mistakes of the past…
 
To be realistic this is almost certainly going to be a faliure, in fact it may never even get enough momentum going to even fail.

But I do think we have an issue with not addressing what success looks like to start with, so anything less that a total success is deemed a faliure. But success and faliure are not binary states, there is a whole range of outcomes with degree of both. If 5 years from now collective has 20k memebers, half a dozen councillors and maybe a ex Labour MP hanging on in parliament, that would be pretty successful compared to other efferts, but many might still call it a faliure.

Also I have no fucking alternative to offer so what do I know?
 
I am still very far from convinced this is actually going to be a thing, but do notice that Pamela Fitzpatrick (referred to in the guardian thing and a director of JC's Peace & Justice project) co-founded a new company back at the end of February, the 'Justice Collective'

JUSTICE COLLECTIVE LTD people - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

JUSTICE COLLECTIVE LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
 
Smokeandsteam said:
What’s rattled your cage?
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your contradictions just amused me

network-man-tangled-huge-white-260nw-176100848.jpg
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Whilst I am happy to have bought some amusement into your life, I was unaware that I’d suggested the ‘1970’s CPGB Industrial Policy’ as the foundational basis for a new left organisation…but you live and learn.
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I am sorry your memory is so fucked that you cant remember what you wrote a week or two ago. But hey ho.
 
belboid said:
I am still very far from convinced this is actually going to be a thing, but do notice that Pamela Fitzpatrick (referred to in the guardian thing and a director of JC's Peace & Justice project) co-founded a new company back at the end of February, the 'Justice Collective'

JUSTICE COLLECTIVE LTD people - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

JUSTICE COLLECTIVE LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
Click to expand...
If you heard the phrase "Justice Collective" with no context, what would you assume it was? I reckon either paedohunting vigilantes or second-rate house act.
 
Cerv said:
with Corbyn involved, does this officially count as a split from Labour? or does his time outside the party preclude that?
need to update the giant Visio chart of minor leftwing parties.
Click to expand...
I doubt that Corbyn would have been re-elected as an MP but for his outstanding record as a constituency MP, which even his most hardline opponents would not dispute.

In other words it's all about the individual, not the policies.

I wonder whether the likes of Richard Burgon and Rebecca Long-Bailey, who were/are close allies of Corbyn and among the MPs currently suspended from the PLP, have similarly close relationships with their constituents that would enable them to survive a split from Labour.
 
With Starmer and Labour rapidly plummeting in the polls, there's space to put pressure on them from the left. I'm not rushing to join this, it will likely be the usual dismal lot, but I wish them the best and it would be great were they able to do that.
 
Plumdaff said:
With Starmer and Labour rapidly plummeting in the polls, there's space to put pressure on them from the left. I'm not rushing to join this, it will likely be the usual dismal lot, but I wish them the best and it would be great were they able to do that.
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emanymton said:
If you mean apply pressure to make that shift left, I really don't think there is. Their response to any pressure from the left would be to shift even further to the right.
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As I have said before (but maybe not on this thread) there's only one direction of travel with the labour 'centrists'. A good poll / election result is taken as showing they are doing the right thing in moving ever more right wing. A bad poll / election result is taken as showing they haven't moved right wing enough.

And electorally, the alternative is a tory party who have taken refuck's votes as showing they aren't far-right enough.

Blargh.
 
_Russ_ said:
I think we are close to the point where we just have to admit to ourselves that so called modern civilisation reached a peak sometime in 50s-60s and we are on an express elevator to hell....going down!!!
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1960s and 70? A peak for straight white men in the west perhaps, anyone else, not so much…
 
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