How should the non-party political left respond to the rise of the far right?
- Thread starter smokedout
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LDC
On est tous des pangolins
For me work and locality are the critical areas to organise in, so mostly meeting spaces are not needed as much; for work you have the work place, and localities usually local pubs or cafes can mostly do for many. Specific meeting spaces tends to be more needed with disparate groups of people who have come together around an issue or campaign that's unrelated to work and what people often mean is they want a social and meeting space for their scene to meet in.
Again, I'm not against them, but I do not think they're a great need right now generally.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
.I think the need for spaces is broader than Left organised space, it also the loss and/or absence of common space in locality or even workplace (I'm thinking for example of some new build schools I've visited that - deliberately - don't have staff rooms. Or new housing estates without pubs, cafes or shops)
zedr
new but not *that* new
I definitely agree that work and locality are key places to organise.
However I think, in response to the OP, that to stem the rise of the far right, there need to be ways for people to gather, meet, share ideas, discuss - often with people who they might not usually interact with in their workplaces or localities. I'm involved in things like this in my area, bringing people together to cook meals, socialise and organise. We are trying very specifically to do this in a non-subcultury way and to make sure everyone who comes along feels welcome. This requires space (and space where we can cook!). We've now managed to establish a good relationship with a local cafe who will give us their space for free once a month, but this has taken a few years to build up to. We've tried to support other nearby groups doing similar things to do this, but they have found it hard to find a decent place to meet/cook/plan etc.
Pubs and cafes have their place, for sure. But once you have 15 or more people, finding a decent space becomes more tricky.
However I think, in response to the OP, that to stem the rise of the far right, there need to be ways for people to gather, meet, share ideas, discuss - often with people who they might not usually interact with in their workplaces or localities. I'm involved in things like this in my area, bringing people together to cook meals, socialise and organise. We are trying very specifically to do this in a non-subcultury way and to make sure everyone who comes along feels welcome. This requires space (and space where we can cook!). We've now managed to establish a good relationship with a local cafe who will give us their space for free once a month, but this has taken a few years to build up to. We've tried to support other nearby groups doing similar things to do this, but they have found it hard to find a decent place to meet/cook/plan etc.
Pubs and cafes have their place, for sure. But once you have 15 or more people, finding a decent space becomes more tricky.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes. Definitely. These lack of spaces also weaken community networks and organic forms of social solidarity.
Pubs, social clubs, shops, parks, sports pitches, community centres, libraries were all places where the community came together.
The left, even if it had the resources and the wherewithal, isn’t equipped to easily overcome a process of atomisation that has been developed and worsened over 50 years.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Let's move beyond the spaces/moving/etc. stuff.
So... you have an local area, workplace, meeting space etc. and you interact with people day-to-day, or when you meet for something more specific. How do we concretely politically engage with people and deal with racist and conspiratorial views, either when they come up or pre-emptively? Do people run 'political education' sessions, reading groups, etc.? Do we just deal with issues when they come up? If so how do we do this collectively in meetings or films etc.? When do we exclude people for their views, or how long do we tolerate the views while engaging in some discussions to try and dissuade people? Are we very open about our politics, and if so does that mean projects need a broad agreed political line? How long do we give people in a Whatsapp group when they keep spamming it with YouTube 'research'?
I think conspiratorial stuff is often the hardest to deal with, in both its prevalence and the hold it seems to have on people nowadays. It oftens creeps up on you from some (somewhat) reasonable starting position that slips into batshit ideas and you suddenly find yourself embroiled in complete loonspuddery. I have found it very difficult to challenge this stuff (I think online is impossible, it has to be done face-to-face) and trying to do it in any collective setting with a broad range of people with various politics (some of whom might even agree or have sympathies with the conspiracist) is often quite destructive to any group cohesion.
So... you have an local area, workplace, meeting space etc. and you interact with people day-to-day, or when you meet for something more specific. How do we concretely politically engage with people and deal with racist and conspiratorial views, either when they come up or pre-emptively? Do people run 'political education' sessions, reading groups, etc.? Do we just deal with issues when they come up? If so how do we do this collectively in meetings or films etc.? When do we exclude people for their views, or how long do we tolerate the views while engaging in some discussions to try and dissuade people? Are we very open about our politics, and if so does that mean projects need a broad agreed political line? How long do we give people in a Whatsapp group when they keep spamming it with YouTube 'research'?
I think conspiratorial stuff is often the hardest to deal with, in both its prevalence and the hold it seems to have on people nowadays. It oftens creeps up on you from some (somewhat) reasonable starting position that slips into batshit ideas and you suddenly find yourself embroiled in complete loonspuddery. I have found it very difficult to challenge this stuff (I think online is impossible, it has to be done face-to-face) and trying to do it in any collective setting with a broad range of people with various politics (some of whom might even agree or have sympathies with the conspiracist) is often quite destructive to any group cohesion.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
How did we use to deal with - I'm searching for an accurate and appropriate term here! - "the off-putting weirdos" and lost souls who have always been attracted to this kinda thing?
That side of things is not new, it's scale and it's penetration of normies might be though.
That side of things is not new, it's scale and it's penetration of normies might be though.
ska invita
back on the other side
yes and talks honestly about the contradictions and difficulties you raise, and about his own desires*just looked him up and apparently Evans lives in Cardiff.
The broader point stands though I think.
ska invita
back on the other side
Im interested in 1930s examples of what happened then...the broad rule of thumb seems to have been about winning over and explaining (anti)fascism to petit booj and middle classes. The wider use of the F word the last few months in the media is a little encouraging I think.
One concrete example that was explicitly formed as an antifascist initiative was the Left Book Club
Accounts suggest it did well - a large scale grassroots educational network formed. The modern incarnation of the LBC is trying to recreate such a network.
I also recently read this brilliant autobiographical account
lwbooks.co.uk
basically all about defending communities around material needs (resisting evictions was key), even defending people were open fascists, as a way of winning them around to the cause, resulting in the first Communist MP winning a seat, but more importantly winning hearts and minds and showing up fascist leaders for what their concerns were.
In summary: education , affinity groups + practical class solidarity
One concrete example that was explicitly formed as an antifascist initiative was the Left Book Club
The Left Book Club by Ian Bloom — Left Book Club
The best radical writing with the UK's only not-for-profit book subscription. The Left Book Club was founded in 1936 to oppose war, inequality and fascism. Join us today and help support political education. Every month we send you carefully selected books on politics, economy, society & culture...
leftbookclub.com
I also recently read this brilliant autobiographical account
Our Flag Stays Red - Lawrence Wishart
In Our Flag Stays Red Phil Piratin gives a unique account of communist and anti-fascist activity in London’s East End in the 1930s and 1940s.
lwbooks.co.uk
In summary: education , affinity groups + practical class solidarity
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
On moving - it is possible that people may move to small towns if they have been priced out of cities? Assuming they can get jobs etc. Classically people used to "move back" after several years in a city raging on the Garys for a quieter life and to have kids.
Also with music/subcultural stuff, there does seem to be a few projects going on outside of big cities that are really interesting. "Monday Night In Middlesbrough" is a run of weirdo music events started by a local who is an accountant for example and they seem to have taken over an empty property in a shopping centre for some of them and are doing work with Palestinian Sound Archive - Tickets - Events
Easy to dismiss that as a load of arty bollocks but it is one example of someone doing something (for cheap entry) which can bring a community of people together.
I struggle with the idea that someone would move purely because they wanted to do "normie" (i.e. not subcultural) politics.
Also with music/subcultural stuff, there does seem to be a few projects going on outside of big cities that are really interesting. "Monday Night In Middlesbrough" is a run of weirdo music events started by a local who is an accountant for example and they seem to have taken over an empty property in a shopping centre for some of them and are doing work with Palestinian Sound Archive - Tickets - Events
Easy to dismiss that as a load of arty bollocks but it is one example of someone doing something (for cheap entry) which can bring a community of people together.
I struggle with the idea that someone would move purely because they wanted to do "normie" (i.e. not subcultural) politics.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The latter quote reminded me of the IMG turn where their former teacher and charity sector comrades were spotted working on the Tube or for British Telecom . Didn’t last long in most cases.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is easier if you have a project with specific aims? Like keeping a library open or stopping a prison/incinerator/something horrible being built?
You can then probably exclude a lot of nonsense by saying that it isn't relevant? And the person briniging the nonsense can decide whether or not they value the social interaction that the group brings more than the comfort of solo Youtube wormholes.
My guess is that many of these people will be fairly obsessive and perhaps will piss of other people too so it's a question of being firm but fair with them? I definitely agree it has to be face to face and generally engaging with the substance of their pet topic is probably a waste of time as these people are very big on obscure facts and detail.
In terms of being open with our politics I have always taken the view that most people are simply not interested in most of what I believe so I try to engage with them on their own terms rather than leaping ahead to my particular brand of revolutionary consciousness. You can allude to things and see if people want to get into them though. Mainly they don't. Jettisoning the jargon is key also.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
With the radical history walking group I am involved in, we've made some good connections with some local venues and want to do more. The Mildmay Club in Newington Green seems to be an uneasy alliance of longstanding working class locals and more hipster types but together they have kept the place open. The Unitarian Church nearby has some really interesting stuff happening. Both are keen on the spaces being used and seem reasonably stable at the moment. My group has stuggled to do much with them but it is interesting that the potential is there. Every year someone suggests we do a gig or something in the winter and basically nobody has the capacity to do this.
There is also a community centre near me that has birthday parties which look like proper old school reggae dances and church that does foodbanks etc.
There is also a community centre near me that has birthday parties which look like proper old school reggae dances and church that does foodbanks etc.
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