What is the best way to combat a populist right victory in next GE?

[The39thStep]

No one will have the guts to do that though, not when every newspaper magnate will jump in their headlines screaming TRAITORS ENEMIES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM etc. It's this fucking cowardice in the face of those bastards who don't actually represent most people's views.

Only joking

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Deport brexit voters/other low information people.
Win the culture war.
Defend the Labour Government.

 

[redsquirrel]

I guess I mean people on the Left - is there any way to communicate that we're not doing this because we're miserable killjoys who want everyone to be poor. Like, how can we get over to people that, if they can't find it in themselves to care about other people, can they grasp that they will be cheated, their kids will be cheated and their lives will get much, much worse under these grifters?

I don't think it it true or makes political sense to claim that the hard right (EDIT or rather people attracted by the hard right) don't care about other people. Those attracted to populism frequently do care, indeed the feeling that they and their friends and family have been harmed and hurt by politicians, the establishment, etc is a often driver for such politics (The Rise of the Right is good on this score). So I don't think it is about communication, indeed seeing the opposition of hard right primarily as a communication matter is in for me part of the problem.

The left' consists of a whole range of political views, some of which are in conflict with each other. My interests are directly opposed to those of the LP hierarchy, and as such my politics is often in conflict with liberal/state anti-populism.
Instead of thinking in terms of views, I'd suggest thinking in terms of interests (and of course more specifically class interests).

 

[LDC]

I guess I mean people on the Left - is there any way to communicate that we're not doing this because we're miserable killjoys who want everyone to be poor. Like, how can we get over to people that, if they can't find it in themselves to care about other people, can they grasp that they will be cheated, their kids will be cheated and their lives will get much, much worse under these grifters?

As has been said, who or what are you considering 'the left'? It includes a variety of groups, organisations and people, some of which have conflicting views and politics. Are you suggesting some kind of popular broad front papering over those differences to keep a far right party from power?

What's the political base for your politics and political activity, and what is your end goal? Then we could work out a strategic plan to get there.

As has also been mentioned accusing people of not caring is not any kind of solution, infact it's part of the whole problem.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There seems to be quite a bit of research into this at the London School of Economics at the moment, and funding. I genuinely think people all over the place are trying to deal with inequality. But are they getting their views and ideas heard by enough people? How can we spread this? I’ve heard people talking of silos, so perhaps the necessary thing is to break the silos.

Nobody in power is trying to deal with inequality. This Labour government is pursuing policies that will ensure that inequality continues to rise.

This imo is the core failure of 'sensible' neoliberal 'centrists'* the world over, whether here, in France, in New Zealand, or wherever. They preside over increasing inequality and call it success.

*They are not centrist at all, of course. Economically, the likes of Reeves, Macron, even Arderne, are hard-right.

 

[oryx]

As has been said, who or what are you considering 'the left'? It includes a variety of groups, organisations and people, some of which have conflicting views and politics. Are you suggesting some kind of popular broad front papering over those differences to keep a far right party from power?

What's the political base for your politics and political activity, and what is your end goal? Then we could work out a strategic plan to get there.

As has also been mentioned accusing people of not caring is not any kind of solution, infact it's part of the whole problem.

Two thoughts on your first paragraph:

• the right are also very divided - look at the Tories, who until recently were very successful in terms of power. I don't take a close interest in the affairs of Reform/what was UKIP, but while this has unfortunately been the most successful popular movement of the last decade or so, I'd be surprised if they weren't riven with conflict underneath. I think the right are better at controlling and hiding it than the left, though.
• 'some kind of popular broad front papering over those differences to keep a far right party from power' may be the best we can hope for? This is a tough ask as I've never known the left to be in such disarray.

(Will be interested to see Cloo's response as I'm aware your question was to her).

 

[redsquirrel]

'some kind of popular broad front papering over those differences to keep a far right party from power' may be the best we can hope for? This is a tough ask as I've never known the left to be in such disarray.

How is it to be achieved and what would it look like?

In the popular fronts of the 30s socialist groups were able to bring in such numbers that they had some weight in the front. Whatever the flaws of those popular fronts groups who organised on a class struggle basis had some level of power in them.
I'm unconvinced by the evoking of a popular front in France today but the LFI does have some weight in the NPF.
That's not going to be possible in the UK in 2025, any attempt to create a popular front here means little more than throwing one's lot in with Labour. So more of the same politics that have got us to this position - and that brings us back to the conflicting politics.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Basically what is needed is everybody on the left to stop waiting for somebody famous to do everything for them, and to stop insisting that only total ideological purity will suffice. Moves are being made to create a grass roots upwards democratic movement on the left and the bulk of the people who should be getting involved in making it happen are either sneering from the sidelines or waiting until their favoured big name tells them what to do. Get off your backsides and actually do stuff.

 

[mojo pixy]

Till someone sees you and tells you you're doing it wrong. Then the ensuing argument gets louder and more bitter till it ends up on some social media, and people on each side start questioning each other's integrity, intelligence, morality and parentage, then accusing each other of some crime against tolerance or reason, calling each other names, doxxing each other and threatening legal action. More and more voices join in and the arguments get more and more toxic till the original point is lost under a mountain of bad feeling and distrust, and nobody listens to each other any more.

"That could never happen here"

 

[Boo Radley75]

Convince them that the right are going woke. We've already got Bad Enock trying to cancel the great British sandwich. That's a start.

 

[chilango]

Basically what is needed is everybody on the left to stop waiting for somebody famous to do everything for them, and to stop insisting that only total ideological purity will suffice. Moves are being made to create a grass roots upwards democratic movement on the left and the bulk of the people who should be getting involved in making it happen are either sneering from the sidelines or waiting until their favoured big name tells them what to do. Get off your backsides and actually do stuff.

Where/who/what is this "grass roots upwards democratic movement on the left"?

I've seen no sign of such a thing irl.

 

[chilango]

Anyway, short answer to the OP is that there is no (good) way to stop a right-populist victory at the next GE.

We just need to get ready to defend ourselves as best we can. Start building a new world in the ruins and all that...

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Bring back happy slapping. So people can leave the matrix.

 

[brogdale]

Anyway, short answer to the OP is that there is no (good) way to stop a right-populist victory at the next GE.

We just need to get ready to defend ourselves as best we can. Start building a new world in the ruins and all that...

And those ruins are here now, made by an anti-immigrant, anti-disabled, anti-welfare pro-austerity, pro-Zionist, pro-Business administration that is NRPINO

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not-Right-Populist-In-Name-Only?

This may struggle to catch on.

 

[planetgeli]

NRPINO

What?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not-Right-Populist-In-Name-Only?

This may struggle to catch on.

Populism is usually popular. That rules out Starmer's mob. I'd call their schtick right-unpopulism.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Northern Republican Protestant Inforcers of National Order

 

[brogdale]

What?

It's OK, I've just had a second coffee; I'll be back to my dull, unimaginative self soon enough.

 

[LDC]

Where/who/what is this "grass roots upwards democratic movement on the left"?

I've seen no sign of such a thing irl.

What? How could you have missed the lastest dynamic Corbyn-related 'new' political party being built from the grassroots?

 

[chilango]

What? How could you have missed the lastest dynamic Corbyn-related 'new' political party being built from the grassroots?

Probably 'cos I live in a bubble of ideologically pure ultra-leftists, right?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Northern Republican Protestant Inforcers of National Order

They went right downhill after the first album.

 

[Cloo]

As has been said, who or what are you considering 'the left'? It includes a variety of groups, organisations and people, some of which have conflicting views and politics. Are you suggesting some kind of popular broad front papering over those differences to keep a far right party from power?

What's the political base for your politics and political activity, and what is your end goal? Then we could work out a strategic plan to get there.

As has also been mentioned accusing people of not caring is not any kind of solution, infact it's part of the whole problem.

Fair questions!

I suppose I was talking on two levels - really about how we as individuals can talk to people in our lives and on social media, and what (in theory, cos it's never gonna happen in reality) the government could to, uh, not massive court a crushing defeat by the populist right.

I mean, a lot is limited by the fact that the media and increasingly social media is overwhelmingly treating anything left of 'kicking orphans on a daily basis' to be crazed socialist madness because they have succeeded in moving the Overton window that far right.

My political basis at the moment has to be 'anything but the Tories' and I'll admit to being an armchair activist because arguments make me cry and I'm too aware of how much I don't know or fully understand to be bullish about a lot of things.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Probably 'cos I live in a bubble of ideologically pure ultra-leftists, right?

Because it is basically total balderdash by journalists and commentators who have zero inside knowledge and are speculating wildly on the basis of personality politics or wishful thinking. There are efforts to form a new party. They are being done by a whole bunch of different people. However in media terms things only ever happen because somebody famous does them. I am actually actively involved in this stuff and just about everything you see about it in the mainstream and social media is utter nonsense. However I realise that for the vast majority of you, people people like Jamie Driscoll, Leane Mohamed, Pamela Fitzpatrick, Sean Halsall, Ian Hodson, Jabu Nana-Hartley etc don't actually exist as they don't ever appear on your TV. I fully understand that 99% of people believe that all it takes to form a political party is for 3 or 4 well known people to spend an evening in pub and scrawl a constitution on the back of a beer mat and it is job done. However reality is VERY different.

As has been said, who or what are you considering 'the left'? It includes a variety of groups, organisations and people, some of which have conflicting views and politics. Are you suggesting some kind of popular broad front papering over those differences to keep a far right party from power?

What's the political base for your politics and political activity, and what is your end goal? Then we could work out a strategic plan to get there.

As has also been mentioned accusing people of not caring is not any kind of solution, infact it's part of the whole problem.

Actually what a load of us are working on is a multiple approach. Building community action groups on a local basis to at least get some things happening NOW. Creating a forum to link both those groups and national groups so everybody can find out what they can directly take part in. Creating an umbrella "branding" and communications system to minimise conflicting actions and to lead to at least some coherence while the work goes on to map out a consensus party structure and constitution. The strategic plan is being put together. It's slow progress because there are a lot of people who find trust very difficult after decades of betrayal, and there are some egos involved as well as people scared of risking what "political capital" they already have. It is happening though. What it needs is more people to actually get involved and fewer constantly sniping about how everybody else on the left is rubbish.

There will most likely be some genuine concrete news around early March. There will also be a hell of a lot of speculative garbage and petty bitching up until then. I will be posting some stuff on Urban in the new year with information on how to actually make this all happen. I have no doubt that 80% of Urbanistas will ignore it since nobody famous has their name publicly attached to it and another 10% will simply complain that it isn't 100% exactly what they want and therefore must be entirely eschewed. However it will be there.

 

[LDC]

Actually what a load of us are working on is a multiple approach. Building community action groups on a local basis to at least get some things happening NOW. Creating a forum to link both those groups and national groups so everybody can find out what they can directly take part in. Creating an umbrella "branding" and communications system to minimise conflicting actions and to lead to at least some coherence while the work goes on to map out a consensus party structure and constitution. The strategic plan is being put together. It's slow progress because there are a lot of people who find trust very difficult after decades of betrayal, and there are some egos involved as well as people scared of risking what "political capital" they already have. It is happening though. What it needs is more people to actually get involved and fewer constantly sniping about how everybody else on the left is rubbish.

Some of that sounds OK, I mean depending on a few things obviously. So, where are these groups then, in what towns and areas? Do they have a common name, activity focus or platform?

What are the problems identified that have caused similar projects to fail before, and how is this project going to avoid them?

 

[Ax^]

racist and banging on about the price of eggs

worked for Donald trump

 

[chilango]

Because it is basically total balderdash by journalists and commentators who have zero inside knowledge and are speculating wildly on the basis of personality politics or wishful thinking. There are efforts to form a new party. They are being done by a whole bunch of different people. However in media terms things only ever happen because somebody famous does them. I am actually actively involved in this stuff and just about everything you see about it in the mainstream and social media is utter nonsense. However I realise that for the vast majority of you, people people like Jamie Driscoll, Leane Mohamed, Pamela Fitzpatrick, Sean Halsall, Ian Hodson, Jabu Nana-Hartley etc don't actually exist as they don't ever appear on your TV. I fully understand that 99% of people believe that all it takes to form a political party is for 3 or 4 well known people to spend an evening in pub and scrawl a constitution on the back of a beer mat and it is job done. However reality is VERY different.

Actually what a load of us are working on is a multiple approach. Building community action groups on a local basis to at least get some things happening NOW. Creating a forum to link both those groups and national groups so everybody can find out what they can directly take part in. Creating an umbrella "branding" and communications system to minimise conflicting actions and to lead to at least some coherence while the work goes on to map out a consensus party structure and constitution. The strategic plan is being put together. It's slow progress because there are a lot of people who find trust very difficult after decades of betrayal, and there are some egos involved as well as people scared of risking what "political capital" they already have. It is happening though. What it needs is more people to actually get involved and fewer constantly sniping about how everybody else on the left is rubbish.

There will most likely be some genuine concrete news around early March. There will also be a hell of a lot of speculative garbage and petty bitching up until then. I will be posting some stuff on Urban in the new year with information on how to actually make this all happen. I have no doubt that 80% of Urbanistas will ignore it since nobody famous has their name publicly attached to it and another 10% will simply complain that it isn't 100% exactly what they want and therefore must be entirely eschewed. However it will be there.

I think your criticism here is off-target.

I doubt (m)any of us are waiting for some "celebrity" to start a new political party.

You'd be fair if you were saying we were too pessimistic., and that this time there's always a chance it might be different.

But, instead you seem to be lashing out with inaccurate straw men.

 

[seventh bullet]

But seriously, yes, this is the root of it. And sadly no one's going to that without basically being massively anticapitalist and outright redistributing wealth, which I don't see happening any time soon. Everyone is just going to get worse and worse off as the richest cream off more and more - and the middle classes need to really get this means them too now - and people will respond by voting in politicians who will just accelerate that,

The downwardly mobile 'middle classes' (lingering self-conceptions of social status haven't caught up with the reality of decades of increased proletarianisation) will potentially see more fascist support. These days it doesn't come in the form of paramilitaries in colour-coded shirts.

 

[chilango]

These days it doesn't come in the form of paramilitaries in colour-coded shirts.

...but don't rule that out either.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

These days it doesn't come in the form of paramilitaries in colour-coded shirts.

no. farage has been fairly successful at forming a 'respectable face of far right' party for people who might have sympathised with some of what the NF and BNP said but thought they were too lower class...