XL Bully dog - discussion

[Callie]

The above graphic shows the Kangal has the highest PSI bite but is only responsible for 10 attacks since 1982.

Anyway this suggestion is based on general potential severity of an out if control dog attacking. So as not to move the probably from XL bully to Kangal/rottie/Rhodesian Ridgeback/mega chihuahua

 

[Callie]

The media like scare stories. Chihuahuas aren't scary.

Lies.

 

[platinumsage]

Maybe dogs should be banned on the basis of their bite PSI?

Maybe, but a good start would be banning dogs that have been solely responsible for a more than doubling of fatalities over the last three years.

 

[WouldBe]

Lies.

Which bit?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's not so straightforward to judge threat levels. Seems to me that there are three related issues that interact with one another in not-so-straightforward ways.

1. The power of the dog, so unsurprisingly bigger dogs have stronger bites and have the potential to do more harm.

2. The typical temperaments of different breeds. Some breeds are more aggressive than others, some are more prone to mental problems than others.

3. The kinds of people that buy certain breeds. Clearly there is a self-selecting aspect here, which may skew the data. If a responsible, knowledgeable owner looks after an XL Bully and the dog is well socialised, how does that mitigate any risks from considerations 1. and 2.?

 

[LDC]

It's not so straightforward to judge threat levels. Seems to me that there are three related issues that interact with one another in not-so-straightforward ways.

1. The power of the dog, so unsurprisingly bigger dogs have stronger bites and have the potential to do more harm.

2. The typical temperaments of different breeds. Some breeds are more aggressive than others, some are more prone to mental problems than others.

3. The kinds of people that buy certain breeds. Clearly there is a self-selecting aspect here, which may skew the data. If a responsible, knowledgeable owner looks after an XL Bully and the dog is well socialised, how does that mitigate any risks from considerations 1. and 2.?

One of the ways risks could be mitigated is compulsory muzzling and being on a leash of certain breeds when in public at all times. It could also be a step to avoid having to remove animals from their owners once a ban came in, so currently owned animals are not taken away, but have to be neutered, chipped as well as on a leash and muzzled at all times in public. Breaking this could result in automatic animal removal and destruction.

 

[Tones]

The media like scare stories. Chihuahuas aren't scary.

Maybe because they don't maul people to death.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think my question re muzzling would be to ask if a breed needs muzzling in public even if it is well looked after and well socialised, then is that dog an appropriate animal to keep as a pet? As an interim measure while a breed is being phased out, though, fair enough.

The analogy with guns is a good one, I think, but there is one important difference. You don't have well socialised guns and badly socialised guns. The owners may be more or less responsible in the way they keep their gun, but their actions don't alter the gun itself and the danger it potentially represents. Very different from a dog.

 

[platinumsage]

One of the ways risks could be mitigated is compulsory muzzling and being on a leash of certain breeds when in public at all times. It could also be a step to avoid having to remove animals from their owners once a ban came in, so currently owned animals are not taken away, but have to be neutered, chipped as well as on a leash and muzzled at all times in public. Breaking this could result in automatic animal removal and destruction.

This is exactly what the supposedly “flawed” Dangerous Dogs Act already provides for.

 

[editor]

Saw some twat strutting down the busy main drag in Brixton yesterday with a huge aggressive dog walking in front of him, no lead, no muzzle. Some people were terrified of the thing, which is no surprise given the recent news.

 

[Sweet FA]

Maybe because they don't maul people to death.

 

[StoneRoad]

The media like scare stories. Chihuahuas aren't scary.

bollocks to that, little yappy ankle-biters ...

[having had one try to nip my ankles while I was chatting with the owner - luckily I had thick jeans and ankle boots on, and I've a good shake the foot reflex. So good that I nearly booted the dammn thing into the marina !]

 

[Orang Utan]

I couldn’t really give a fuck if it’s unfair or not. Just as nobody needs to own a 9mm pistol in this country, nobody needs to own one of those dogs.

If I was made homeless, I might be keen on getting one

 

[Humberto]

There's some interesting data here:

List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Preston, Lancashire, England – Victim was bitten on the hand and neck when she broke up a fight between her dog and a loose dog (named Psycho) during a walk on 31 May. She was taken to hospital on 3 June and died on 7 June from sepsis. A dog was seized. A 49-year-old man was arrested "on suspicion of offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act".

Searching the name of the victim, Sharon Jennings, apparently no criminal prosecution.

Another:

Cornwall, England – Boy was attacked and killed when he was left alone with the dog in a caravan at a holiday park. The child's mother and the dog's owner had both left the caravan to drink. The dog's owner was arrested on suspicion of manslaughter and having a dog dangerously out of control. The blood soaked woman had left the area by begging for taxi or train fare and pretending she was a victim of domestic violence. The dog was seized. Variously described as a "bulldog-type breed", a "boxer bulldog type", and a "large bulldog cross", it was discovered that the dog had been involved in four previous attacks and often wore a muzzle at home.

Owner did 18 months of a 3 year sentence.

Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England – Victim and his smaller pet dog were attacked when his neighbour's five-year-old dog got out of its pen. Two months prior, victim reported the dog to the council, fearing it was a pit bull terrier and might attack. Police seized the dog but returned it to its owner a week before the fatal attack after deciding it was not a banned breed per Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. Victim suffered a sustained attacked and the dog was still mauling him when police arrived.[91] The dog's owner was jailed for 10 years after he was convicted of owning a dog dangerously out of control causing injury resulting in death. He had failed to comply with an order to muzzle and restrain the dog, which had a history of attacking neighbours.

Substantial jail term this time.

This tragedy involved a Pit Bull. Victim was 6 months old:

Blackburn, Lancashire, England – Victim was attacked and killed by a 126 lb dog as her mother lay sleeping with her boyfriend, the dog's owner. The 126 lb dog was determined to be a pit bull terrier by experts and a veterinary surgeon and was destroyed after the attack. The dog's owner was jailed for 18 weeks and prohibited from owning dogs for 5 years after he was found guilty of owning a prohibited breed.[72][73] The dog was named Snoop but known in the neighbourhood by the name "Killer" and it killed a neighbour's cat two years prior.

 

[platinumsage]

If I was made homeless, I might be keen on getting one

A 9mm pistol, sure, but good luck keeping an XL Bully under control at all times while sleeping on the street.

 

[Orang Utan]

A 9mm pistol, sure, but good luck keeping an XL Bully under control at all times while sleeping on the street.

I would only care that it would protect me from assault

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I would only care that it would protect me from assault

Yeah I can see the attraction. Fiercely loyal to owner? Check. Scary to other people? Check.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Someone suggested upthread that size is a factor - if it can overpower an adult, it should be banned, (tho depends on the adult I would have thought.)

Again, I reckon one of those big fuckers could overpower pretty much any unarmed human.

 

[Elpenor]

Has anyone tried giving XL Bully dogs a vegan diet?

 

[Orang Utan]

Has anyone tried giving XL Bully dogs a vegan diet?

I wouldn’t dare!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah I can see the attraction. Fiercely loyal to owner? Check. Scary to other people? Check.

Hasn’t at least one attack been on the owner?

Yep - Mum mauled to death in XL Bully dog attack that almost killed her partner

So Orang Utan may want to choose another protector.

 

[Orang Utan]

Hasn’t at least one attack been on the owner?

Yep - Mum mauled to death in XL Bully dog attack that almost killed her partner

So Orang Utan may want to choose another protector.

I’m too loveable

 

[WouldBe]

Maybe because they don't maul people to death.

But they do have teeth that are capable of ripping flesh only takes someone to be unconscious.

 

[moomoo]

One of these is trained to kill. The other one is his best friend.

 

[Plumdaff]

Owning a gun significantly increases the chances that you, or someone you love, will be killed by gunshot.

I'd imagine owners and loved ones of XL Bullies face a similar increased risk.

Neither is really as protective as it might initially seem.

 

[Tones]

But they do have teeth that are capable of ripping flesh only takes someone to be unconscious.

Yes, but they don't. Where are you going with this utterly spurious comparison between the proven risk that certain breeds pose and the hypothetical (and unmanifested) risk posed by chihuahuas?

 

[8ball]

View attachment 391612

Quick Google search is unclear on whether a Chihuahua has ever killed a human.
Seems most likely the body count is 0, could possibly be 1.

There is one recorded death involving a Chihuahua but it was one of five dogs in the area.
Another case logged but doesn't seem to be an "attack" - maybe got stuck under brake pedal while owner was driving or something like that.

 

[Serge Forward]

Yes, but they don't. Where are you going with this utterly spurious comparison between the proven risk that certain breeds pose and the hypothetical (and unmanifested) risk posed by chihuahuas?

Peak Urban silly work.

 

[planetgeli]

Never knew the Chow was viscous.

It's a sticky subject

 

[newme]

Taking on a dog (or most animals) is a large and long term financial commitment. I think having to find a few quid more to cover licensing/training really shouldn’t be an issue.

You would think so but there's way too many that take on all kinds of pets without thinking this through properly. We waited until we had at least one person at home at all times and could exercise and train the dog every single day. Plus could afford any expenses associated with it, had all kit in etc etc. Researched breeds, checked every adoption place in 100 miles and local groups month after month.

Put it off for about 8 years and then a year of research. Fencing, etc etc. Then got a barely medium sized collie/corgi cross with a large garden and two people to deal with it at almost all times, minimum one. Vet visit asap after we got him, shots updated, everything you can think of.

Mates a dog walker and walking for people with entirely unsuitable animals for their conditions. Has reported several and refused to take a fair number that wont fit with the pack after a trial. Or has the dog for weeks, training, grooming, socialising etc then owners have it back and next time it's back nothing has been kept up at all and it's back to the start but she feels bad for the dog and off she goes again trying to help.