Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[ID47]

There is logic in appeasement.

It's like running away from a lion, you don’t have to be faster than the lion, just faster than the person next to you.

 

[The39thStep]

I'm a fierce defender of equalities. However I'm not sure we went into all this detail about the track record of the respective states in advancing LGB+T rights when most of us condemned the West's invasions of Iraq ,Afghanistan and Libya .Ironically the IDF whilst no doubt having an better record compared to both Ukraine and Russia are using that as propaganda for war crimes .

 

[Pickman's model]

I think Zelensky’s support for Israel’s ‘right to defend itself ‘ is far more connected to be seen siding with ‘the West’ than anything else tbh .

i think it's a sign of stupidity, thinking that if he cosies up to the big boys they will always defend him from the nasty bully. as it is he is siding with the biggest bullies in the mistaken hope that his arslikhan (see eg his visit to the fascist in buenos aires) will stand him in good stead. while wendy james and transvision vamp may have found desperation appealing i don't think it's seen in quite such a positive light in the corridors of power in washington. he may be in the big bullies' good books now but they'll drop him like stone should it become convenient. the fate of eg ngo dinh diem ought not to be forgotten by prospective allies of the west.

 

[The39thStep]

i think it's a sign of stupidity, thinking that if he cosies up to the big boys they will always defend him from the nasty bully. as it is he is siding with the biggest bullies in the mistaken hope that his arslikhan (see eg his visit to the fascist in buenos aires) will stand him in good stead. while wendy james and transvision vamp may have found desperation appealing i don't think it's seen in quite such a positive light in the corridors of power in washington. he may be in the big bullies' good books now but they'll drop him like stone should it become convenient. the fate of eg ngo dinh diem ought not to be forgotten by prospective allies of the west.

First reference on this thread to Wendy James and Transvision Vamp .

 

[Pickman's model]

First reference on this thread to Wendy James and Transvision Vamp .

but almost certainly not the last

 

[The39thStep]

Churchill was talking about Nazi Germany. He advocated an alliance with the Soviet Union pre war and didn't want Estonia and other Baltic States falling into the hands of the Nazis

 

[PTK]

Perhaps, as prime minister of a country which has suffered both to appalling degrees, he’s developed a keen sense for the moral distinctions between savage murder and rape on the one hand, and indiscriminate bombing with mass casualties and life-threatening infrastructure degradation on the other.

The number of civilians killed in Ukraine in 25 months is 40 times grearer, per capita, than the number of civilians killed in the Gaza Strip in five months.

 

[spitfire]

Some grim reading in this Xitter thread that details some of the war crimes committed by Russian soldiers during the invasion. With encouragement from their top brass.

TW: sexual abuse and violence.

Spoiler: twitter thread

This link will open a download to a pdf so only click on it if you want to download the full report, it's 20 pages.

Spoiler: link to pdf

https://ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/A-HRC-55-66-auv-EN.docx

 

[ska invita]

The number of civilians killed in Ukraine in 25 months is 40 times grearer, per capita, than the number of civilians killed in the Gaza Strip in five months.

hmmm not sure about that
this says 10,000 civilians killed overall as of last month in Ukraine

UKRAINE: 42 civilian causalities every day in two years of war | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

Gaza figures are around 30,000 at present but its way more than that , wont know till later, i expect 100,000+ "excess mortality"

im not sure factoring per capita multipliers is that helpful, especially as much of populated ukraine is not in the direct warzone

what a grim topic

 

[Pickman's model]

hmmm not sure about that
this says 10,000 civilians killed overall as of last month in Ukraine

UKRAINE: 42 civilian causalities every day in two years of war | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

Gaza figures are around 30,000 at present but its way more than that , wont know till later, i expect 100,000+ "excess mortality"

im not sure factoring per capita multipliers is that helpful, especially as much of populated ukraine is not in the direct warzone

what a grim topic

Grim has done its best but has become rather overused and threadbare over the past two years

 

[PTK]

hmmm not sure about that
this says 10,000 civilians killed overall as of last month in Ukraine

UKRAINE: 42 civilian causalities every day in two years of war | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

Gaza figures are around 30,000 at present but its way more than that , wont know till later, i expect 100,000+ "excess mortality"

im not sure factoring per capita multipliers is that helpful, especially as much of populated ukraine is not in the direct warzone

what a grim topic

The population of the Gaza Strip is just about 2 million, and the population of Ukraine is about 42 million.

 

[Pickman's model]

The population of the Gaza Strip is just about 2 million, and the population of Ukraine is about 42 million.

i thought there were 2.3m people in the gs pre-8.10.23 as per eg UN agency warns of ‘looming famine’ in Gaza

 

[discokermit]

The population of the Gaza Strip is just about 2 million, and the population of Ukraine is about 42 million.

i think you have done your sums wrong.

 

[PTK]

i think you have done your sums wrong.

What are the correct sums?

 

[PTK]

i thought there were 2.3m people in the gs pre-8.10.23 as per eg UN agency warns of ‘looming famine’ in Gaza

I was rounding down.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was rounding down.

so are the zionists

 

[bcuster]

Churchill was talking about Nazi Germany. He advocated an alliance with the Soviet Union pre war and didn't want Estonia and other Baltic States falling into the hands of the Nazis

The more things change, the more they stay the same…

 

[Pickman's model]

The more things change, the more they stay the same…

improvement means deterioration

 

[existentialist]

I think Zelensky’s support for Israel’s ‘right to defend itself ‘ is far more connected to be seen siding with ‘the West’ than anything else tbh .

Sounds like a bit of a case of "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" to me

 

[existentialist]

I'm sure they love the Gays: View attachment 416156

Your mask of wide-eyed innocence is slipping.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your mask of wide-eyed innocence is slipping.

no one is innocent. certainly no one on u75.

 

[Pickman's model]

Really interesting article about the Russian war of way, from West Point's modern war institute The Russian Way of War in Ukraine: A Military Approach Nine Decades in the Making - Modern War Institute

 

[gosub]

There is logic in appeasement.

It's like running away from a lion, you don’t have to be faster than the lion, just faster than the person next to you.

Tbf to Chamberlain that wasn't what it was about. France and (according to Putin) Russia wanted war on the invasion of Czecholslovakia..Peace in our time they knew wasn't. It was we need time to switch gears on rearming.. Having said that it was a period where political classes of all nations knew the cost of war at first hand and weren't in the main jingoistic more needs must..
For their sacrifice WW1 lead to universal suffrage and a higher school leaving age. Ww2 lead to further raising of school leaving age..a lot of social housing and the NHS...
Today's political class seems largely devoid of those whom have done service...they might want to give serious thought to what bargain they can come up with this time

 

[The39thStep]

Sounds like a bit of a case of "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" to me

His main concern is to keep on the side of those who supply him arms and hope that the Gaza situation doesn’t disrupt that . He came out with a statement that some while ago about not wanting Gaza to distract from Ukraine .

 

[tim]

.

Certainly sir, I'll complete that assignment for you just as soon as Ukraine invades one of its neighbours and starts committing massive war crimes

As Ukraine has sent proxy troops over the Russian border and are shelling Belogrod again, killing at least two, isn't time to make that submission?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/two-killed-shelling-russian-border-city-belgorod-governor-says-2024-03-16/

 

[Artaxerxes]

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 416227

But what do you think?

 

[Elpenor]

.

As Ukraine has sent proxy troops over the Russian border and are shelling Belogrod again, killing at least two, isn't time to make that submission?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/two-killed-shelling-russian-border-city-belgorod-governor-says-2024-03-16/

Sounds like a cynical attempt to disrupt a free and democratic election to me

 

[Pickman's model]

Tbf to Chamberlain that wasn't what it was about. France and (according to Putin) Russia wanted war on the invasion of Czecholslovakia..Peace in our time they knew wasn't. It was we need time to switch gears on rearming.. Having said that it was a period where political classes of all nations knew the cost of war at first hand and weren't in the main jingoistic more needs must..
For their sacrifice WW1 lead to universal suffrage and a higher school leaving age. Ww2 lead to further raising of school leaving age..a lot of social housing and the NHS...
Today's political class seems largely devoid of those whom have done service...they might want to give serious thought to what bargain they can come up with this time

Lest we forget chamberlain left office over the conduct of the narvik campaign and not the diplomacy of the 1930s

 

[SpookyFrank]

The study posted earlier went into detail as to their perceptions of LGBTQ people and the discrimination they faced. It said things were improving but it was incrementally and major institutions inc the churches and their congregation were implacably opposed.

Are things improving in Russia?