Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[RedRedRose]

Anti-Mobilization Protests By Russian Soldiers' Wives and Mothers Quashed - The Moscow Times

Wives and mothers of Russian soldiers who have been mobilized for the war in Ukraine are facing restrictions and intimidation as they demand to bring their loved ones back from the front.

www.themoscowtimes.com

On the surface it might only be an anti-mobilisation protest, however i) its a movement in the right direction, ii) it indicates Russian troops aren't being rotated, iii) Russian troops are resisting deployment through deliberately getting themselves injured.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Between the Nazis and Stalin's Russia slaughter. OUN crimes are barely a drop in the ocean in comparison. Ukraine trying to get big up a resistance movement even one as dodgy as they are is kind of understandble if repellent the more you learn about it.

It’s grim all the way down, you had anti Russian resistance and anti German resistance at various points - perfect circumstances for the vilest people to get a gun and shoot their neighbors

 

[The39thStep]

Between the Nazis and Stalin's Russia slaughter. OUN crimes are barely a drop in the ocean in comparison. Ukraine trying to get big up a resistance movement even one as dodgy as they are is kind of understandble if repellent the more you learn about it.

What were the OUN crimes and why do you think they were dodgy and repellent but kind of understandable?

 

[TopCat]

This is fucking grim:

Once Again, Russian Tyranny Is Forcing Young Men in Ukraine Toward a Moral Precipice

As Putin drafts soldiers from the country’s occupied east, the author reflects on why his father fought with Germany against the Soviets in WWII

newlinesmag.com

What a load of shite.

 

[TopCat]

All this talk of stalemate looks increasingly optimistic. Ukraine are running out of people to throw at the war.

Ukraine soldiers complaining of cooks and drivers being thrown at the Russian lines.

Average age of Ukrainian soldiers now 43, many with missing limbs. All led by Zelensky, a man who was recently described by an aide as messianic, deluded.

But the process of urging Ukrainians to fight to the last person continue behind keyboards.

You don’t make peace with friends, you make it with enemies. Ukraine refusing to even countenance any talks is a total failure of leadership.

 

[dylanredefined]

What were the OUN crimes and why do you think they were dodgy and repellent but kind of understandable?

The crimes aren't understandable they did everything the Nazis and Russians did just less of it . The Ukrainians wanting the resistance fighters to be hero's is.

 

[Pickman's model]

The crimes aren't understandable they did everything the Nazis and Russians did just less of it . The Ukrainians wanting the resistance fighters to be hero's is.

so you're saying the crimes are incomprehensible

 

[TopCat]

Reports here of getting more Ukrainian women to join the fight. Only men it seems are forcibly conscripted in Ukraine. Women volunteer. It’s a good thing in some ways. I have always taken the view that war mongering women might tone it down a bit if it was a case of them getting maimed or killed instead of just boys and men. . Keep your yellow ribbon.

‘If Not Me, Who?’: As Ukraine Seeks Troops, Women Prepare for the Call

With so much in the war against Russia hinging on refilling the ranks of soldiers, efforts are underway to draw more Ukrainian women into the army.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TopCat]

Will it be brave school children next?

 

[Pickman's model]

Will it be brave school children next?

and their craven companions in three months' time

 

[TopCat]

The end of the third reich comes to mind. If the Germans had surrendered to invading armies from the West instead of carrying on a futile fight they would not have been decimated by enraged Soviet soldiers coming from the East. But fighting to the last man, then using kids in Berlin was the plan and caused such a waste of life.

 

[TopCat]

I would certainly cheer if Zelensky got shot in the head by a colleague who then sued for peace.

 

[Chz]

The end of the third reich comes to mind. If the Germans had surrendered to invading armies from the West instead of carrying on a futile fight they would not have been decimated by enraged Soviet soldiers coming from the East. But fighting to the last man, then using kids in Berlin was the plan and caused such a waste of life.

You yourself admitted not two posts above that women aren't being conscripted yet. And only those with medical training are being asked to register. If that brings to mind the end of the Third Reich, then a shop at Morrisons must give you PTSD from the Cambodian killing fields!

 

[TopCat]

You yourself admitted not two posts above that women aren't being conscripted yet. And only those with medical training are being asked to register. If that brings to mind the end of the Third Reich, then a shop at Morrisons must give you PTSD from the Cambodian killing fields!

Women can and are enlisting throughout the Ukrainian armed forces. You would have noticed that by reading the report. Women with medical training are getting drafted but are not yet deployed.

 

[TopCat]

Between the Nazis and Stalin's Russia slaughter. OUN crimes are barely a drop in the ocean in comparison. Ukraine trying to get big up a resistance movement even one as dodgy as they are is kind of understandble if repellent the more you learn about it.

Excusing the Nazi compatriots. Or perhaps tell us why it was understandable to join the Waffen SS

 

[cupid_stunt]

I would certainly cheer if Zelensky got shot in the head by a colleague who then sued for peace.

Whereas just about everyone else on here would cheer if Puntin got shot in the head by a colleague who then sued for peace.

It seems for some reason that solution hasn't occurred to you, how telling.

 

[Chz]

Women can and are enlisting throughout the Ukrainian armed forces. You would have noticed that by reading the report. Women with medical training are getting drafted but are not yet deployed.

In which case, the United Kingdom or France remind you of the last days of the Reich then? At least make an effort to be consistent in your rabid Zeleno-phobia. Women have been enlisting in the Ukrainian armed forces for decades.

 

[Rob Ray]

Ukraine refusing to even countenance any talks is a total failure of leadership.

Have you criticised Russia for this?

Russia Rejects Kyiv-Backed Peace Talks in Malta - The Moscow Times

Russia on Thursday criticized Ukrainian-backed peace talks set to be held in Malta this weekend, warning any discussions without its participation would be counterproductive.

www.themoscowtimes.com

You spend a lot of time waffling on about how Zelensky is letting everyone down by not suing for peace, but who's he supposed to be talking to? Putin's not given any indication that he'd be satisfied with the status quo, let alone with taking the sort of approach the general public of Ukraine might find acceptable. I wonder, why is it that so few critical words about the guy who started it ever escape your lips? I'm not saying you're pro-Russia here but you certainly seem to forget there's two sides in the war quite a lot (and also that despite war fatigue there is still a very clear Ukrainian majority in favour of continuing, meaning even if Zelensky was shot he wouldn't be getting replaced by a dove, and isn't acting against the wishes of his constituents).

 

[andysays]

The end of the third reich comes to mind. If the Germans had surrendered to invading armies from the West instead of carrying on a futile fight they would not have been decimated by enraged Soviet soldiers coming from the East. But fighting to the last man, then using kids in Berlin was the plan and caused such a waste of life.

I'm not sure this analogy with the end of the third reach is as appropriate as you apparently think it is.

There's one clear difference between the situation Ukraine currently finds itself in and that which Germany was in in 1945, and I'd hope that you can work it out for yourself with a bit of thought.

 

[Yossarian]

Is Putin to blame for this war? No, it must be the colleagues too cowardly to assassinate Jewish Ukrainian Hitler, along with the war mongering women of course

 

[Artaxerxes]

The ignore function is a marvellous feature but it doesn’t work as I can tell who your replying to and what hot takes are going down like vomit

 

[Pickman's model]

The end of the third reich comes to mind. If the Germans had surrendered to invading armies from the West instead of carrying on a futile fight they would not have been decimated by enraged Soviet soldiers coming from the East. But fighting to the last man, then using kids in Berlin was the plan and caused such a waste of life.

The allies agreed a policy of accepting only unconditional surrender at the casablanca conference in 1943: therefore no western front surrender was possible

 

[dylanredefined]

Excusing the Nazi compatriots. Or perhaps tell us why it was understandable to join the Waffen SS

You got to kill Russians,

 

[krtek a houby]

You got to kill Russians,

Forgotten Sting lyric

 

[tim]

The end of the third reich comes to mind. If the Germans had surrendered to invading armies from the West instead of carrying on a futile fight they would not have been decimated by enraged Soviet soldiers coming from the East. But fighting to the last man, then using kids in Berlin was the plan and caused such a waste of life.

How in earth did that analogy come into your mind? I doubt that many Russian soldiers currently fighting are enraged and consequently driven to win at any cost; and the push from the "East" in this war got fucked 18 months ago on the scrap strewn road to Kyiv.

My view is that Ukraine probably won't be capable of regaining all the territory that has been annexed by Russia in this conflict let alone that lost in 2014, but Russia won't be moving much further West either.

Do you really think that Russia will win?

 

[Pickman's model]

How in earth did that analogy come into your mind? I doubt that many Russian soldiers currently fighting are enraged and consequently driven to win at any cost; and the push from the "East" in this war got fucked 18 months ago on the scrap strewn road to Kyiv.

My view is that Ukraine probably won't be capable of regaining all the territory that has been annexed by Russia in this conflict let alone that lost in 2014, but Russia won't be moving much further West either.

Do you really think that Russia will win?

Russia wins by maintaining a presence in 2013 Ukraine borders and thus a tricky one for nato to consider, if they want to adopt a country with an unresolved border issue counter to their rules

 

[The39thStep]

The crimes aren't understandable they did everything the Nazis and Russians did just less of it . The Ukrainians wanting the resistance fighters to be hero's is.

The OUN killed more Jews, killed more Poles than it killed Red Army Soldiers or Nazis combined. Understandably.

 

[tim]

Russia wins by maintaining a presence in 2013 Ukraine borders and thus a tricky one for nato to consider, if they want to adopt a country with an unresolved border issue counter to their rules

A paltry and pyrrhic victory given the Russian Governments intentions at the start of last year. Certainly not one on the level of Topcat's march on Berlin fantasy. As to NATO, the Ukraine might not get membership but they've obtained enough support to stall Russia and humiliate the ruling elite.

 

[Pickman's model]

A paltry and pyrrhic victory given the Russian Governments intentions at the start of last year. Certainly not one on the level of Topcat's march on Berlin fantasy. As to NATO, the Ukraine might not get membership but they've obtained enough support to stall Russia and humiliate the ruling elite.

The matter is still in play and events on the wider global stage, in regions such as the Middle East and East Asia may impact the result of the conflict in Ukraine. Russia may yet achieve a more favourable result on the battlefield than the current impasse suggests. But the initial aim of regime change in kyiv is at least at present off the table

 

[Fez909]

I would certainly cheer if Zelensky got shot in the head by a colleague who then sued for peace.

Depending on how closely this colleague and Zelensky work together, it wouldn't help:

Russia says co-existence not possible with Ukraine's current 'regime'

Russia cannot co-exist with the present "regime" in Kyiv, a senior Russian official said on Tuesday, reaffirming the goals of what President Vladimir Putin calls a special military operation to "demilitarise" Ukraine.

www.reuters.com