Yossarian
⏭️
The Week of High Windows
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
The Week of High Windows
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Re: the grain shipments
This is where Russia's "it's not legally a war" thing bites them in the arse, should anyone brave choose to challenge them. Blockading a country outside of a state of war is, under international law, piracy. If the Americans did decide to sail freighters in and have them sunk (and I absolutely do NOT think they will), they'd have free reign to sink anything Russian in the Black Sea in the name of anti-piracy operations. They can't pretend it might be armaments, because that would absolutely be the stupidest possible way to transport arms into Ukraine, which has a safe and fairly unrestricted land border directly with NATO.
I repeat though - I don't think anyone will pull them up on it. It's just an interesting technicality.
This is where Russia's "it's not legally a war" thing bites them in the arse, should anyone brave choose to challenge them. Blockading a country outside of a state of war is, under international law, piracy. If the Americans did decide to sail freighters in and have them sunk (and I absolutely do NOT think they will), they'd have free reign to sink anything Russian in the Black Sea in the name of anti-piracy operations. They can't pretend it might be armaments, because that would absolutely be the stupidest possible way to transport arms into Ukraine, which has a safe and fairly unrestricted land border directly with NATO.
I repeat though - I don't think anyone will pull them up on it. It's just an interesting technicality.
Yossarian
⏭️
Since Putin is also a war criminal, I think there's more chance of him giving Girkin a mansion and his daughter's hand in marriage than there is of him turning him over to international authorities
dilute micro
esse quam videri
There's been lots of mind game attacks between Ukraine and Russia recently. This was along the same lines of the drones into Moscow. This one is about stopping the ships from even going to Odesa because no one will want to insure them. The Ukrainian economy is Russia's big advantage. The strangle hold on it will take a lot longer than a 3 day trip to Kyiv but it will work. Russia will win in the long run if they can manage to stay in control of Ukraine's ports and the western world predictably turn their backs on it all and settle for a negotiated peace. Russia tried to completely landlock Ukraine but failed. Had they been able to it would be much easier to see how long-term fucked Ukraine is. Odesa can't handle all of Ukraine's shipping and Poland can't handle trucking it through Europe even if Poland wanted to. Ukraine needs its ports back.
maomao
普費斯
At this moment he might rather he were in a Dutch jail anyway.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I am Spartacus ( short version)
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
Extremism? Has he done something even more extreme than shooting down an airliner lately?
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
His regular & loud criticisms of putin have finally exceeded allowed limits, possibly ?
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
His critiques haven't escalated, but the regime's tolerance of dissent has diminished. This will be a spiral.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Also wagner's boss is out of circulation, and, as you say, the tolerance of dissent has decreased, quite markedly since Prigozhin's "little" mutiny.
I recall that Girkin and Prigozhin feuded ...
Yossarian
⏭️
GIrkin certainly seems to be in a pickle
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I see lbc report Ukraine have also said they'll treat ships heading to Russian ports as fair game. Not seeing any of the 'is this an act of war' rhetoric about this, altho it could of course broaden the conflict
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Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
All we are saying, is give peas a chance…
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
And again last night [22nd to 23rd July 2023]
using up high precision missiles to attack commercial farming / food export {storage} infrastructure
plus whatever they used to destroy the Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Odessa.
I person killed and 19 wounded
Total 19 missiles expended for attacks on targets with little or no immediate battlefield or military significance.
Can only hope that the current interdiction campaign wears down the ammunition supplies before they can do too much more damage.
using up high precision missiles to attack commercial farming / food export {storage} infrastructure
plus whatever they used to destroy the Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Odessa.
I person killed and 19 wounded
Total 19 missiles expended for attacks on targets with little or no immediate battlefield or military significance.
Can only hope that the current interdiction campaign wears down the ammunition supplies before they can do too much more damage.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'm not sure what you're saying here which seems to be you'd prefer these missiles to be used on battlefield or c2 centres to cause higher Ukrainian military casualties
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
They will have air defence there, so not strictly correct about no military targets. It’s also where they send the naval drones out from (which is what Russia claims to be targeting). Though this attack is largely about stopping Ukraine from exporting agricultural products in order to fuck up their economy further. And it’s bollocks all to do with ‘revenge’ for the Crimean bridge attack, this was pre planned to coincide with their withdrawal from the grain deal, they wouldn’t have sorted out targets and logistics that quickly in response.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
No, I want the Ukrainians to wipe those missiles out - either before they can be launched, or in transit.
And hopefully, without more Ukrainian {especially civilian} casualties.
I would also want the russians to stop deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure objects, but, sadly I can't see that happening ...
teqniq
DisMembered
Are you trying to tell me that this specific part of the city had military targets? I think not.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Who knows? I don't, don't suppose you do either. What even is a military target?
teqniq
DisMembered
No, I don't know for sure but I think it's entirely fair to surmise that the Ukrainians would not deliberately site military targets air defence or otherwise in a Unesco world heritage centre .
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh how are you defining military target?
teqniq
DisMembered
Nah, I'm not defining them since you ask but anything that is obviously 'military' I think would fit the bill, unlike for instance this cathedral. Incidentally Twitter is awash with disinformation about this attack including people saying the cathedral was hit by one of Ukraine's own air defence missiles.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't know what you mean by anything obviously military. I think a rather clearer and more comprehensible way of putting things would be to describe as legitimate targets those which facilitate the ability of one side to wage war. These clearly won't be simply things that are obviously military but logistical like oil tanks, economic like ports or warehouses or infrastructure like bridges. And obviously there are a number of illegitimate targets, places or institutions the bombing of which is a war crime. Would an attack on a military hospital be an attack on a military target? Imo clearly it would. Would it be a war crime? Imo yes. Would an attack on a russian ministry be an attack on a civilian target? Quite possibly: but as part of the Russian administration I suggest it could well be a legitimate target.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Not doubting that the church was hit but generally, if you want a consistent example of misinformation then Igor Sushko is a must tbh.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Then you'd be wrong.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Let's see you make the caseThen you'd be wrong.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
You don't shoot unarmed soldiers full stop.
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