Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[TopCat]

Did you ever stop to wonder why there is such a preponderance of "no coherent response but sarcasm" responses to your posts? And perhaps then go on to muse what might the the common factor in all of those...?

No, of course you didn't.

I think the six or so gung ho supporters of the proxy war tend to go for abuse, sarcasm, projection in the absence of any reasonable response.

That you do it in concert just suggests you feel more comfortable here on urban to assert what are frankly right wing warmongering views.

 

[Rob Ray]

I think the six or so gung ho supporters of the proxy war tend to go for abuse, sarcasm, projection in the absence of any reasonable response.

That you do it in concert just suggests you feel more comfortable here on urban to assert what are frankly right wing warmongering views.

As you know I'm not a gung-ho supporter of anything. It was a silly comment which got lightly roasted, that's all there is to it, and having a huff doesn't improve your position here.

 

[existentialist]

As you know I'm not a gung-ho supporter of anything. It was a silly comment which got lightly roasted, that's all there is to it, and having a huff doesn't improve your position here.

If you don't have Putin's arseprint on your forehead, then as far as TopCat is concerned, you're a gung-ho supporter of the war

 

[TopCat]

As you know I'm not a gung-ho supporter of anything. It was a silly comment which got lightly roasted, that's all there is to it, and having a huff doesn't improve your position here.

You’re deluded to think I give thought to my position here. But anyway, without checking I did have you down as a strong supporter of the proxy war. Not a NAFO neck beard type but still.

 

[existentialist]

You’re deluded to think I give thought to my position here. But anyway, without checking I did have you down as a strong supporter of the proxy war. Not a NAFO neck beard type but still.

I really don't think anyone here is deluded enough to think that your posts are the result of any thought

 

[TopCat]

If they eventually send troops do any of you lot intend to join up?

 

[TopCat]

Even the editor is still young enough.

 

[Yossarian]

If they eventually send troops do any of you lot intend to join up?

This again? If you feel like topping up your pension, I think Wagner are still hiring...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The Kerch Bridge into Crimea from Russia appears to have been hit again.

Nine years to the day that Russia killed 298 men, women and children by shooting down MH17.

 

[TopCat]

Nine years to the day that Russia killed 298 men, women and children by shooting down MH17.

Do you recollect how many days since the US shot the Iranian passenger plane out of the sky?

 

[TopCat]

This again? If you feel like topping up your pension, I think Wagner are still hiring...

I loathe war. But many here support it. A reasonable question to ask.

 

[Artaxerxes]

If you don't have Putin's arseprint on your forehead, then as far as TopCat is concerned, you're a gung-ho supporter of the war

Remember, calling someone a war monger and a nato stooge is fine, explaining why the Russians murdering kids isn’t fine is a personal attack

 

[Flavour]

Blaming the woman for being raped? This is a new low even for you.

you've been doing it since the war began, waffling on about how Ukraine provoked Russia into invading, or how it was really NATO's fault that Russia invaded cos they pushed Russia into action through their endless provocations. it's victim blaming. justifying the aggressive militarism of the Russian regime. "We owe them a debt", as you once said.

and your new low today is singing the praises of the Taliban. you do it on purpose to wind people up 'cos you're bored. i hope being able to count on the solid like of Pickman's model for whatever trolling bullshit you post is gratifying.

 

[existentialist]

Do you recollect how many days since the US shot the Iranian passenger plane out of the sky?

That's just whataboutery.

 

[Flavour]

right wing warmongering views.

Trying to understand why Russia might have felt the need to invade = left-wing, pacifist, "war-loathing"
Trying to understand why Ukraine might feel the need to defend itself = right-wing, warmongering

 

[TopCat]

I don’t go trawling the net for stuff to put up here. It’s just what I read daily. The i newspaper had a decent article this morning on the current state of the war.

It would be good to discuss some of the points without more stupid insults.

'Ukraine in a very difficult position right now': What’s going wrong with the counteroffensive

The task of dislodging Russia’s entrenched forces across the occupied territories is daunting - and the clock is ticking

inews.co.uk

 

[TopCat]

That's just whataboutery.

Yeah yeah. Blonde people matter more.

 

[TopCat]

Trying to understand why Russia might have felt the need to invade = left-wing, pacifist, "war-loathing"
Trying to understand why Ukraine might feel the need to defend itself = right-wing, warmongering

Supporting the US in their proxy war is your position. Just be open about it.

 

[TopCat]

you've been doing it since the war began, waffling on about how Ukraine provoked Russia into invading, or how it was really NATO's fault that Russia invaded cos they pushed Russia into action through their endless provocations. it's victim blaming. justifying the aggressive militarism of the Russian regime. "We owe them a debt", as you once said.

and your new low today is singing the praises of the Taliban. you do it on purpose to wind people up 'cos you're bored. i hope being able to count on the solid like of Pickman's model for whatever trolling bullshit you post is gratifying.

More bullshit.

 

[existentialist]

Yeah yeah. Blonde people matter more.

The point is that whatever shenanigans the US got up to in an entirely unrelated situation doesn't automatically validate the bloodthirsty Russian regime's total disregard for civilian lives. I suspect that even you could figure that out - you just choose not to.

 

[Flavour]

Supporting the US in their proxy war is your position. Just be open about it.

It is my position to the exact same extent that supporting Russia in their non-proxy war is your position. I.e. quite a lot, and yet, simultaneously, not at all

 

[TopCat]

So the article in the i in summary said that no army has historically overcome similar defence lines as the Russians have without air superiority.

If this is the case pouring more troops in won’t work.

Has the i got it wrong?

 

[editor]

Even the editor is still young enough.

One minute you're loudly trumpeting that you're got me on ignore, the next you're namechecking me in your increasingly bizarre pro-Putin, pro war crimes, pro mass slaughter of civilians insane rhetoric with a bit of casual ageism thrown in the mix - like you're so much younger.

Don't do it again, please.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Amazingly I find the US shooting down an Iranian jet barely a few years after I was born was a bad thing and I also support Ukraines right to defend themselves from Russian aggression

Weird that innit. You can do both things.

The duality of man and all that.

 

[Flavour]

Amazingly I find the US shooting down an Iranian jet barely a few years after I was born was a bad thing and I also support Ukraines right to defend themselves from Russian aggression

Weird that innit. You can do both things.

The duality of man and all that.

NAFO neck beard

 

[LDC]

I don’t go trawling the net for stuff to put up here. It’s just what I read daily. The i newspaper had a decent article this morning on the current state of the war.

It would be good to discuss some of the points without more stupid insults.

'Ukraine in a very difficult position right now': What’s going wrong with the counteroffensive

The task of dislodging Russia’s entrenched forces across the occupied territories is daunting - and the clock is ticking

inews.co.uk

Wide ranging discussions about the war have happened on here for months and months, with different views (on both 'sides') expressed and people making arguments for their positions.

But I haven't seen you discuss anything. You only post one line comments, re-post news articles, or moan about personal digs (usually having just been attacking others). Your lack of self awareness is pretty incredible to be honest.

On that article I wouldn't pay too much attention to it or any of the daily press news. They need to print a constant stream of commentary that gets people to click and/or read (I mean iNews ffs), and for analysis of the fighting, how's it's going and the problems there's much better people and places to pay attention to than an iNews journalist with 'an anonymous source' - unless you're keen to seize on anything that says things are going badly for Ukraine, which does seem to be your MO really.

So the article in the i in summary said that no army has historically overcome similar defence lines as the Russians have without air superiority.

If this is the case pouring more troops in won’t work.

Has the i got it wrong?

That's a completely shit and and inaccurate summary, and wasn't what the article concluded, and that bit is you clearly projecting your wishes onto the piece. You didn't mention this for example:

“I am cautiously optimistic,” said Mykola Bielieskov of the National Institute for Strategic Studies, a think-tank in Kyiv that advises Ukraine’s military leadership. “We have seen a deadly combination of Russian mines, artillery, electronic warfare, and attack helicopters. We have adjusted tactics and now target Russian artillery and electronic warfare capabilities to create openings for manoeuvre formations. We still have almost two months before September to create openings. The bulk of the force assembled for the counteroffensive, including hundreds of Western tanks and thousands of armoured vehicles, has yet to be deployed, awaiting the identification of the optimal location to strike."

Just at least have the integrity to be honest TopCat - come out and says Ukraine should stop fighting and let the Russian State have whatever it wants. Just remember to keep turning a blind eye (or excusing) things like Bucha, all the forced deportations, torture, etc.

 

[Artaxerxes]

NAFO neck beard

Honestly I’m worse than Hitler me

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Do you recollect how many days since the US shot the Iranian passenger plane out of the sky?

Yep, I lost a customer on the retaliation bombing for that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Wide ranging discussions about the war have happened on here for months and months, with different views (on both 'sides') expressed and people making arguements for their positions.

But I haven't seen you discuss anything. You only post one line comments, re-post news articles, or moan about personal digs (usually having just been attacking others). Your lack of self awareness is pretty incredible to be honest.

On that article I wouldn't pay too much attention to it or any of the daily press news. They need to print a constant stream of commentary that gets people to click and/or read (I mean inews ffs), and for analysis of the fighting, how's it's going and the problems there's much better sources than a journalist with 'an anonyomous source' - unless you're keen to seize on anything that says things are going badly for Ukraine, which does seem to be your MO really.



That's a completely shit and and inaccurate summary, and wasn't what the article concluded, and that bit is your clearly projecting your wishes onto the piece. You didn't mention this for example:

“I am cautiously optimistic,” said Mykola Bielieskov of the National Institute for Strategic Studies, a think-tank in Kyiv that advises Ukraine’s military leadership. “We have seen a deadly combination of Russian mines, artillery, electronic warfare, and attack helicopters. We have adjusted tactics and now target Russian artillery and electronic warfare capabilities to create openings for manoeuvre formations. We still have almost two months before September to create openings. The bulk of the force assembled for the counteroffensive, including hundreds of Western tanks and thousands of armoured vehicles, has yet to be deployed, awaiting the identification of the optimal location to strike."

what's really peculiar is that the traditional way of war in the forces the ukrainians have been trained by in recent years isn't 'let's start slow and build up big' but to attack with overwhelming firepower and, as TopCat mentions, air superiority. even without air superiority attacking with great land forces - starting your offensive with as large an army as you can field with the newest weaponry etc - is how things have been done not only in the western way of warfare but in the former soviet union, as anyone who has read overy's book on the battle of berlin will recall (or the book by cornelius ryan, too). saying now some weeks into the 'counteroffensive' that the bulk of the force assembled still awaits deployment makes me, if no one else, wonder how ambitious or likely to succeed the current ukrainian campaign is.

it is of course possible that the ukrainian plan calls for breaching russian lines and then the 'hundreds of western tanks and thousands of armoured vehicles' are hoped to flood through. as the commentator suggests by talking of the optimal location to strike. one famous tactic from iraq and syria the russians might have learned is the use of artillery shells as ieds - i wonder if such things will have been prepared for use in any breach. sure we all recall the great number of casualties suffered by the us and allied forces in iraq, where the vehicle might have remained in one piece and no one actually killed but catastrophic injuries suffered by personnel within tanks etc. nonetheless, i can't help feeling that the way things have turned out in the past number of weeks suggests the ukrainian assault isn't going to easily provide the opportunity bielieskov hopes for. even the removal of many wagner forces from the fray hasn't allowed great breaches to be made, yet, in the russian defences. the rate at which the ukrainian forces expend munitions and the introduction of cluster bombs as a stopgap measures while artillery shells are manufactured and shipped out indicates to me that the sort of overwhelming firepower - the shock and awe if you will - which western forces would open with simply isn't going to happen for at least some time to come.

you don't need to tease out stories suggesting things aren't going so well for ukraine when despite their great advantage in accurate missiles, top-notch anti-tank missiles, western manpads and so on, not to mention military training from a range of western armies, the current campaign isn't turning the war as much as you may have expected.

 

[existentialist]

NAFO neck beard

It's all he's got. Namecalling, and tired, lazy stereotypes.