Sometimes it’s right to desert. This was one of those times. Too late though.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it may be right to desert but it's not like it's always easy. and we all have experience of not doing the right thing, generally when the stakes have been rather lower than it is if you want to abandon the russian army.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
What you think is that the green troops decided to stand around of their own accord?
gosub
~#
Nope think they were new so was their Lieutenants and it was the Lieutenants call as to how they positioned themselves
Happened enough at the beginning of the war (on both sides) that it stopped happening...thems greenhorns
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RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
If the Kyiv Independent's source is to be believed, the key concern of the African Peace delegation was the suspension of the ICC arrest warrant against Putin.
Podolyak: African leaders came to Ukraine to ask for suspension of Putin's arrest warrant
The African leaders' delegation that came to Kyiv on June 16 to present a peace plan was mostly interested in suspending Russian dictator Vladimir Putin's arrest warrant, Mykhailo Podoliak, an advisor to Ukraine’s Presidential Office, said.kyivindependent.com
gosub
~#
Intresting...obstacle to retirement in exile?
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
But what does Kyiv have to do with that ? As, I think, it would be a matter purely for the ICC to decide ...
Raheem
Well-Known Member
BRICS summit in Johannesburg in August.
gosub
~#
Great. When are NATO doing a peace tour if Russia?
gosub
~#
Pretty sure NATo can mange without the t shirt sales. More, SA peace whatever being about Putin giving in SA
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This is from the official joint press conference after the meeting between Zelensky and the African leaders
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Before we even get to the question of how realistic desertion is as an option, there's the question of what information is accessible to the soldiers. Is there a newsletter that keeps them up to date with the latest war crimes, so they can make well informed choices? Have they even been told the truth about where they are going or what they are going to be made to do?
Yossarian
⏭️
I get the feeling that I'm not going to win you round to my point of view that Russian soldiers have a lot more agency than people trapped in the crush at Hillsborough, making your analogy a crass one, so probably not much point in discussing it further.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
moochedit
Mr Mooched It
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Someone knows. But they're not telling.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Teuchter's crass. And (steve) ignorant
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The comparison with Hillsborough was made in response to something quite specific, the suggestion that in the case of the bombing, the loss of life was tragic but the mistakes made by the commanders were funny.
I don't think any mistakes, made by those in power, who ought to know better, that result in a bunch of people losing their lives, are funny.
It's not funny that it happened at Hillsborough, it's not funny that it's happening all the time in the war in Ukraine.
When that comparison was made, the agency of the victims wasn't in discussion.
I don't see it as a crass comparison because in neither case do I see any reason to assume that those who died had done anything that would justify their death.
Given what (I thought) we know about Russia, and how it is run, and the bigger picture of who is steering this war I find it a little surprising that we have people questioning whether it's really such a big deal to dodge the draft there. Why is it that so much of Russia's cannon fodder is recruited from its poorer regions - perhaps moral standards are higher in the wealthy?
The implication behind some comments that these soldiers, who we know pretty much nothing about, maybe kind of a bit deserved to die because we know some Russian soldiers before them have committed atrocities... that's sort of disturbing too.
Fez909
toilet expert
Invading and occupying forces, by definition, have done something that justified their deaths. You might not like it, or find it funny, but when you invade other countries, you can't claim innocence.
There are questions around the agency of the individual members of the invading forces, sure. But as a collective, no.
The opposite is true for Hillsborough. They did nothing to justify being killed. Neither as a collective, nor inidividually.
I don't think either is funny, but humour is relative.
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
Looked it up. Article 58.4 states "The warrant of arrest shall remain in effect until otherwise ordered by the Court."
Possibly the source was either trolling the African delegation, or more likely, the delegation was asking if Kyiv would turn a blind eye to Putin rolling up to the BRICS conference without the possibility of arrest.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Yossarian
⏭️
Grim stuff indeed.
Yatsenko believes her patients are not the only ones to have been castrated. “They told me the Russians performed the castration procedure very skilfully, as if they knew how to do it. And I’ve heard about a lot of cases from colleagues treating others.”
...Doctors at the maternity hospital in Poltava said they had been consulted about women from occupied areas who had been raped by Russians then had their vaginas injected with window sealant so they can never have children.
Yatsenko believes her patients are not the only ones to have been castrated. “They told me the Russians performed the castration procedure very skilfully, as if they knew how to do it. And I’ve heard about a lot of cases from colleagues treating others.”
...Doctors at the maternity hospital in Poltava said they had been consulted about women from occupied areas who had been raped by Russians then had their vaginas injected with window sealant so they can never have children.
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
I've heard they're getting 14 and then I read 28. Damn this fog of war.
Is 14 a lot BTW. How many tanks are loads? Ukraine was requesting 300 at the start. I know in negotiations you're supposed to start unrealistically high and meet in the middle but 14 seems a bit taking the piss on the low side. I also know that's just Britain but still...(Americans are a bit stingy too. With their jet engine tanks).
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Ukraine has been given nearly 600 tanks by the west, with another 200 pledged.
Of those delivered, 74 are western designed tanks (Leopard 2s and Challenger 2s) and there are another 180 pledged (mostly the older Leopard 1s, but still some 2s and also 31 American Abrams tanks next year).
Full list of everything pledged and delivered here: Answering The Call: Heavy Weaponry Supplied To Ukraine
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