Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[teuchter]

The loss of life is tragic. The fact that Russia STILL persists in making mistakes like this is funny.

No it's not.

 

[existentialist]

No it's not.

That's the funny thing about humour. It varies between people.

 

[two sheds]

No it doesn't.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Oh, yes it does.,

 

[StoneRoad]

Found this interesting on the issues and impact of migration as a consequence of the war

‘Warsaw feels like a mini Soviet Union’: how Russian is gaining ground in Poland’s capital

Many from Ukraine, Belarus and other ex-Soviet states mostly get by in Russian – but its prevalence is starting to cause a problem

www.theguardian.com

This is one area in which the neutral nature of Esperanto would help ...
Pollando has a lot of Esperanto speakers, probably as result of their cultural history.
At the time Zamenhof was designing la Internacia Lingvo, Bialystok had Russians, Belarusians as well as Poles and Jews, all speaking their own languages ...

 

[RedRedRose]

Found this interesting on the issues and impact of migration as a consequence of the war

‘Warsaw feels like a mini Soviet Union’: how Russian is gaining ground in Poland’s capital

Many from Ukraine, Belarus and other ex-Soviet states mostly get by in Russian – but its prevalence is starting to cause a problem

www.theguardian.com

On a similar topic, Latvia is phasing out the Russian language. Ironically, the war could end up reducing the Russophone world.

Latvia, a small country on the Baltic Sea with just over 1.8 million people, has recently passed a spate of laws to reduce Russia’s influence in the former Soviet nation. Lawmakers hope the measures will deepen domestic cohesion against threats from Moscow. But some experts worry the laws could dangerously deepen fault lines between ethnic Latvians and the significant domestic minority of ethnic Russians.

Wariness of Russia has already led to the removal of Soviet-era monuments and proposed renaming of a street that celebrated Russian poet Alexander Pushkin. More significantly, Latvia has separated the Latvian Orthodox Church from the Russian Orthodox Church and banned some Russian TV broadcasts. It is even considering a return to the mandatory military service that had been abolished in 2006, several years after Latvia joined NATO and the European Union.

But the most significant changes, anchored in new laws, are the pending elimination of the Russian language from standard school curricula and the establishment of Latvian as the only language in which to impart education. The use of Russian in airports, train stations, and several commercial establishments has also been prohibited.

 

[weltweit]

African leaders are visiting Ukraine and Russia in a peace initiative

Why South Africa's Cyril Ramaphosa is leading Ukraine peace mission

South Africa's president is spearheading the mediation effort at a time when he is under US pressure.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[kebabking]

Yeah, not sure it's going to go well...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The guy's on a par with Johnson for being a bullshitting cunt.

 

[Sweet FA]

The loss of life is tragic. The fact that Russia STILL persists in making mistakes like this is funny.

Russian mistakes costing thousands of lives lol.

Classic warlols. Those guys.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, not sure it's going to go well...



View attachment 379469

should use a picture of blair or his press spokesperson because their lies probably shaded muhammad saeed al-sahhaf's

 

[MickiQ]

African leaders are visiting Ukraine and Russia in a peace initiative

Why South Africa's Cyril Ramaphosa is leading Ukraine peace mission

South Africa's president is spearheading the mediation effort at a time when he is under US pressure.

www.bbc.co.uk

They're wasting their time the only people with real influence in Kyiv are the US and the larger NATO members with the US taking the lead. The only people with even limited influence over Mad Bad Vlad are the Chinese and even they can't be sure they will be listened too.

 

[weltweit]

They're wasting their time the only people with real influence in Kyiv are the US and the larger NATO members with the US taking the lead. The only people with even limited influence over Mad Bad Vlad are the Chinese and even they can't be sure they will be listened too.

Yes, I was only observing that they are travelling there. I don't hold out any hopes from the initiative nor know what motivated it.

 

[kebabking]

Yes, I was only observing that they are travelling there. I don't hold out any hopes from the initiative nor know what motivated it.

They, and many others, have an interest in Ukrainian crops, and stuff like fertilizer, getting back out onto the global market - but they don't give a shit about Ukraine, and there's a very significant Russian (Soviet holdover?) Influence/sympathy in SA/ZPF - what they aren't not, is neutral, nor indeed to they have any influence on either party, or China, the west.

It's not grandstanding, they'll get points in Moscow and Beijing just for turning up - they'll discretely talk about intransigence to the press and everyone will know who they're talking about. Kyiv can't be seen to tell to fuck off, but they're about as welcome as crabs, and everyone knows the score.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

They, and many others, have an interest in Ukrainian crops, and stuff like fertilizer, getting back out onto the global market - but they don't give a shit about Ukraine, and there's a very significant Russian (Soviet holdover?) Influence/sympathy in SA/ZPF - what they aren't not, is neutral, nor indeed to they have any influence on either party, or China, the west.

It's not grandstanding, they'll get points in Moscow and Beijing just for turning up - they'll discretely talk about intransigence to the press and everyone will know who they're talking about. Kyiv can't be seen to tell to fuck off, but they're about as welcome as crabs, and everyone knows the score.

They've also been supplying sanctioned shit to Russia whilst denying it.

 

[Idris2002]

I'd suspect that the Soviet holdover in southern African ideas of modern Russia is probably very strong - a lot of the older cadre could well have had their military training in the dear old USSR. A quick scan of the Reuters story about the African peace plan suggests that there is more to it than a simple proposal for an annual sacrifice of Ukraine's first born to the Sauron of Moscow.

They propose: "Those measures could include a Russian troop pull-back, removal of tactical nuclear weapons from Belarus, suspension of implementation of an International Criminal Court arrest warrant targeting Putin, and sanctions relief.

"The above-mentioned measures should aim to facilitate the creation of an environment conducive for a ceasefire, and that will allow the parties to build trust and to consider formulating their peace restoration strategies," the document said."

Exclusive: African leaders to propose 'confidence building measures' to Russia, Ukraine

African leaders could propose a series of "confidence building measures" during their initial efforts to mediate in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, according to a draft framework document seen by Reuters on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

The supension of VP's arrest warrant would be a bitter pill for anyone who saw the pictures from Bucha, but remember that the ICC was widely seen in Africa as being rather partial in its choice of defendants. The talk of trust-building etc. also indicates a realistic assessment of the situation, and height of the hill that has to be climbed to get to peace (that's why they're called summits, it was something Churchill said about "let us meet at the summit").

 

[WouldBe]

Doesn't it also show that Russia isn't interested in peace? They must have known they were going to Kyiv but launched missiles anyway.

 

[The39thStep]

They, and many others, have an interest in Ukrainian crops, and stuff like fertilizer, getting back out onto the global market - but they don't give a shit about Ukraine, and there's a very significant Russian (Soviet holdover?) Influence/sympathy in SA/ZPF - what they aren't not, is neutral, nor indeed to they have any influence on either party, or China, the west.

It's not grandstanding, they'll get points in Moscow and Beijing just for turning up - they'll discretely talk about intransigence to the press and everyone will know who they're talking about. Kyiv can't be seen to tell to fuck off, but they're about as welcome as crabs, and everyone knows the score.

Actually, half the countries in the delegation voted to condemn Russia at the United Nations and the other half didn't.

As for Africa, Ukraine made attempts to elicit support from ' the crabs in' the African states last year and part of Zelensky's message was about Africa being the victim of food prices due to the war. Ukraine then appointed a special envoy for Africa and proposed setting up a Ukrainian/ African political and economic conference.

The African states have more than an interest in crops and fertilizer . About a third of African countries rely upon over half their wheat coming from Ukraine or Russia.

 

[teuchter]

That's the funny thing about humour. It varies between people.

Well, I'm going to try and hope that what varies is how much people actually think about stuff before deciding it's funny.

Because it's a bleak world in which the incompetence or negligence of the decision makers in the Russian military is something that a significant number of people can think of as "funny". Given its visible consequences.

Everyone who died of Covid in the UK because of the incompetence of decision makers in authority - would we say, oh well it was tragic they died but it was pretty funny how the tories/NHS/care homes screwed up!

Hillsborough was very tragic sure but it was pretty funny seeing the police mess up.

The Grenfell enquiry was hilarious, all those bits about professional negligence, once you set aside the tragic outcomes.

If those things aren't funny then why not? Is it because the perpetrators and victims can't be put in a box together as the bad guys?

It was "the Russians". This is how wars are possible in the first place isn't it? The change in thinking that can occur once an enemy can be identified en masse.

It's all the same basic reason I've previously objected to people using terms like "Russkis".

 

[Pickman's model]

Doesn't it also show that Russia isn't interested in peace? They must have known they were going to Kyiv but launched missiles anyway.

This doesn't follow. Of course Russia is interested in peace but their terms, their war aims, are different from ukraine's. Do you suppose Ukraine halted or considered halting their offensive because some envoys flew into kyiv? I don't see you holding Ukraine to the same standard you'd hold russia

 

[Pickman's model]

This doesn't follow. Of course Russia is interested in peace but their terms, their war aims, are different from ukraine's. Do you suppose Ukraine halted or considered halting their offensive because some envoys flew into kyiv? I don't see you holding Ukraine to the same standard you'd hold russia

Just to add this isn't being pro-putin or anti-zelensky, it's just a simple statement of fact

 

[Yossarian]

I wouldn't call it funny but a missile hitting troops gathered for a morale-boosting speech is certainly ironic and I hope the Russian side's morale continues to decline.

 

[WouldBe]

This doesn't follow. Of course Russia is interested in peace but their terms, their war aims, are different from ukraine's. Do you suppose Ukraine halted or considered halting their offensive because some envoys flew into kyiv? I don't see you holding Ukraine to the same standard you'd hold russia

Right so Russia knows a peace envoy is travelling to Kyiv so bombs Kyiv. Does Ukraine only consist of Kyiv?

 

[Pickman's model]

Right so Russia knows a peace envoy is travelling to Kyiv so bombs Kyiv. Does Ukraine only consist of Kyiv?

I don't suppose kyiv was the only place to have been bombed by Russia in the past day. If I'd posted as dismal a contribution as you have I'd be facepalming at myself too

 

[WouldBe]

I don't suppose kyiv was the only place to have been bombed by Russia in the past day. If I'd posted as dismal a contribution as you have I'd be facepalming at myself too

And yet there's no mention of missile attacks on any other Ukrainian city. Seems very suss to me.

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm only not quoting because my phone keeps eating my formatting. Obviously none of this is 'funny', but schadenfreude can provoke laughter. So we call it funny. I'm not laughing btw, but I understand why some people will. We all have, laughed at someone we don't like fucking up and getting hurt so let's not. The problem isn't even schadenfreude, it's that people died. Which is tragic and pointless and fucked but lookat the context .. it wasn't a picnic or a party, these weren't "innocent bystanders".

tl;dr, schadenfreude.

 

[Pickman's model]

And yet there's no mention of missile attacks on any other Ukrainian city. Seems very suss to me.

I don't think either side really wants peace atm while the issue is still in doubt.

 

[teuchter]

I'm only not quoting because my phone keeps eating my formatting. Obviously none of this is 'funny', but schadenfreude can provoke laughter. So we call it funny. I'm not laughing btw, but I understand why some people will. We all have, laughed at someone we don't like fucking up and getting hurt so let's not. The problem isn't even schadenfreude, it's that people died. Which is tragic and pointless and fucked but lookat the context .. it wasn't a picnic or a party, these weren't "innocent bystanders".

tl;dr, schadenfreude.

Yes, shadenfreude is a word but so what?

Doesn't change any of what I wrote.

There are times when indulging in schadenfreude can be excused, times where the people suffering the misfortune can be considered to deserve it. I don't think conscripts to the Russian army deserve to die. It may be that they are going to die and there's nothing we can do about it, but anything that involves conscripts dying is, in my opinion, not funny. Is it funny that it's embarassing for their seniors? No it's not, because of the cost of that humiliation.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yes, shadenfreude is a word but so what?

That's what is being called 'funny', people do that a lot.

Doesn't change any of what I wrote.

Wasn't meant to, was meant to contextualise the issue. War. Aggressors. Mistakes. Hubris. Schadenfreude.

There are times when indulging in schadenfreude can be excused, times where the people suffering the misfortune can be considered to deserve it.

I dont think anyone's asking to be excused, I don't think schadenfreude has anything to do with whether the misfortune was deserved or not. Anyway how can we judge what any active participant in a warzone 'deserves'?

 

[kebabking]

For me, what is funny is that a Russian divisional commander thinks that he can deploy his force out into the open, during a period of high intensity warfare, and have it stand still for two hours without negative consequences.

That the standing around was waiting for him to rock up and deliver a morale boosting speech isn't just funny, it's fucking hilarious.