Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[not-bono-ever]

I’m trying to think what would be the best score to set this to.

Hawkwind double album

 

[TopCat]

Ukraine defence minister: We are a de facto member of Nato alliance

Oleksii Reznikov's comments are set to provoke Russia, which frames the war as a battle with the West.

www.bbc.co.uk

So we are getting more and more involved in this war.

 

[existentialist]

Ukraine defence minister: We are a de facto member of Nato alliance

Oleksii Reznikov's comments are set to provoke Russia, which frames the war as a battle with the West.

www.bbc.co.uk

So we are getting more and more involved in this war.

As I think "we" should be. If Ukraine is left to twist in the wind, the West really has no credibility left in terms of its response to a constant, and ongoing, campaign of aggression by Russia.

 

[ska invita]

Restoring Ukraines borders is not about Ukraine but about not allowing the strong to simply open new tears in old wounds to expand their territory. Its about letting small European countries know that Europe is a collective that will stand up for the small countries and protect them from armies with tanks seeking to redraw their borders.

I do not expect to reach you with this comment. But it might help some to think about why this matters.

Did you read the article? Its saying the US and allies are not acting to restore Ukraine's borders, however much we may wish that to happen. They have a different strategy regarding Russia, a slower stalemate grind

 

[Bingoman]

An explosion has hit a pipeline in Lithuania

Explosion hits gas pipeline connecting Lithuania and Latvia - nearby village set to be evacuated

A fireball near the town of Pasvalys, which has a population of 6,500, rose approximately 160ft into the air.

news.sky.com

 

[Pickman's model]

As I think "we" should be. If Ukraine is left to twist in the wind, the West really has no credibility left in terms of its response to a constant, and ongoing, campaign of aggression by Russia.

After Iraq and Afghanistan I don't suppose the west has much credibility. Everyone knows the west will walk away from Ukraine at some point, and will fleece the country too. I think a lot of people are kidding themselves about us or british or whatnot altruism or doing the right thing for a change.

 

[Elpenor]

From the wests POV the war damage to the built environment / infrastructure provides fertile opportunities for the Halliburton du jour

 

[Dogsauce]

From the wests POV the war damage to the built environment / infrastructure provides fertile opportunities for the Halliburton du jour

Black Rock Capital were in a few weeks ago for talks with Zelensky on rebuilding and privatisations. And so it goes.

 

[Yossarian]

Russia: "Kherson is Russian territory now and the people living there are Russian citizens."

Also Russia: "Let's blow up some hospitals in Kherson and see how many babies we can kill."

The strike on Tomchenko’s hospital marked at least the fifth time Russian forces have hit a medical facility in Kherson city since early December.
One attack hit a different maternity ward just 20 minutes after a baby was born, and this week, another struck the city’s children’s hospital. Russian forces are also shelling other civilian infrastructure. In recent weeks, they hit a market, a museum and many homes. Dozens of people were killed and more than 150 wounded.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/14/kherson-destroyed-russia-ukraine-liberated/

 

[LDC]

From the wests POV the war damage to the built environment / infrastructure provides fertile opportunities for the Halliburton du jour

Don't think categorising that as the 'west's point of view' is accurate and plays into some dangerous tendencies, it's capitalism's really, and that not synonymous with 'the west' at all.

 

[Supine]

Don't think categorising that as the 'west's point of view' is accurate and plays into some dangerous tendencies, it's capitalism's really, and that not synonymous with 'the west' at all.

Opportunities for construction firms. I’m sure this ‘capitalism’ you talk about would have preferred Ukraine to function as a normal country.

 

[Pickman's model]

Opportunities for construction firms. I’m sure this ‘capitalism’ you talk about would have preferred Ukraine to function as a normal country.

There are no normal countries

 

[The39thStep]

It's more than construction it's reconstruction and the runners and riders are assembling

French companies seek role in Ukraine's reconstruction – DW – 12/14/2022

French companies have gathered in Paris to talk about Ukraine's reconstruction efforts during and after the war. But another country could take center stage during the rebuilding phase.

www.dw.com

 

[UnderOpenSky]

After Iraq and Afghanistan I don't suppose the west has much credibility. Everyone knows the west will walk away from Ukraine at some point, and will fleece the country too. I think a lot of people are kidding themselves about us or british or whatnot altruism or doing the right thing for a change.

Maybe. I hope this is different because it's on the boarders of Europe and there is greater interest not to have a Russian client state right next door.

 

[Pickman's model]

Maybe. I hope this is different because it's on the boarders of Europe and there is greater interest not to have a Russian client state right next door.

That didn't work out so well last time

 

[UnderOpenSky]

That didn't work out so well last time

Germany came right in the end.

 

[Pickman's model]

Germany came right in the end.

Not so good for Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria and Poland

 

[The39thStep]

Germany came right in the end.

Not bad for a country that had started three European Wars 1870, 1914, and 1939.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Not so good for Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria and Poland

I'd say arguably they are a lot better then they were when they were Russian client states. My Romanian and Polish colleagues think so anyway.

 

[A380]

I think that we can assume that both Ukraine and Russia are fucked

But 'we' will chuck loads of money into Ukraine afterwards until 'we; get bored. this will make it a lille bit less fucked -though 'our' companies will coincidently end up owning lots of their stuff...

 

[A380]

Not bad for a country that had started three European Wars 1870, 1914, and 1939.

Only started three wars? Amateurs...

 

[Artaxerxes]

Only started three wars? Amateurs...

Britain just does peace keeping interventions and can give it up whenever it feels like

 

[A380]

Britain just does peace keeping interventions and can give it up whenever it feels like

Yeah, there are a whole 22 counties in the world we haven't had a war with.

 

[The39thStep]

Don't think categorising that as the 'west's point of view' is accurate and plays into some dangerous tendencies, it's capitalism's really, and that not synonymous with 'the west' at all.

Can you expand on this please?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Yeah, there are a whole 22 counties in the world we haven't had a war with.

Have we engaged in special military operations with any of them?

 

[A380]

Have we engaged in special military operations with any of them?

I like to think all our military operations were special.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd say arguably they are a lot better then they were when they were Russian client states. My Romanian and Polish colleagues think so anyway.

yeh. but those states, in particular the baltic states and poland, paid rather a high price for being buffer states don't you think?

 

[Pickman's model]

Have we engaged in special military operations with any of them?

yes, lots with portugal

 

[Pickman's model]

But 'we' will chuck loads of money into Ukraine afterwards until 'we; get bored. this will make it a lille bit less fucked -though 'our' companies will coincidently end up owning lots of their stuff...

as i said on another thread, perhaps the ukrainians should enjoy the war for the peace will be bloody

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, there are a whole 22 counties in the world we haven't had a war with.

no, that's countries that the british empire never invaded. not that we haven't had a war with. eg you've forgotten the anglo-swedish war of 1810-1812