Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Kevbad the Bad]

Strange for you to start assuming the nationalities of people posting here and then start claiming to know what they'd think about Irish deaths (not that it's got anything to do with the Russian invasion of Ukraine).

Besides, aren't you English too?

I expect what he meant was "most of the Nazis on this thread cheering on Ukraine".

 

[cupid_stunt]

You are so patronising and so wrong.

Do fuck off, and go and throw another log on your fire.

 

[spitfire]

Not me. I don't wear pyjamas.

Ooh. Camo Y fronts?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Ooh. Camo Y fronts?

Had him down as a commando

 

[spitfire]

Had him down as a commando

I thought we were all armchair generals?

 

[DaveCinzano]

I thought we were all armchair generals?

Plastic sheeting over the seat cushion thank fuck

 

[Yossarian]

If burglars broke into your house would you want them completely out or would you be happy if the took up residence in one of the rooms?

Or, would you be OK with the people in a few of the houses down the street being raped, tortured, and murdered as long as most of the street was left alone?

 

[TopCat]

That's an even dumber analogy.

 

[Yossarian]

That's an even dumber analogy.

The war crimes in Russian-occupied areas have been well-documented, hardly seems reasonable to expect the Ukrainians to abandon some of their countrymen to that fate.

 

[friedaweed]

UnderAnOpenSky - an addition, because you were interested in weapons effect of GMLRS.

This (twitter, obvs..) is a video of the effects of the M31A1 Alternative Warhead, which instead of a unitary warhead (a 200lb big bang) or the now banned explosive sub-munitions (lots of little bangs), is in effect like a shotgun shell: it detonates above its target, and sends a cone of tungsten balls to its target.

Its designed to destroy unarmoured targets - vehicle parks, aircraft flight lines, radars, fuel dumps, ammunition dumps, logistics hubs, railway infrastructure, troops in the open, gun lines - though in truth it would also fuck up any tank that got in the way...

(Pendant point: though HIMARS tas taken the public imagination, it's only one of three types of GMLRS launcher in service in Ukraine - the UK and German systems fire twice as many rockets, though it's exactly the same rocket, from the same pod, controlled by the same fire control system)

That needs overdubbing by Swiss Tony, selling it on to a Nepalese Yak hearder as a feed truck.

 

[friedaweed]

Plastic sheeting over the seat cushion thank fuck

Yup. Given the age of some of us it'll be more a case of mobility scooter or cammode generals.

 

[Raheem]

Yup. Given the age of some of us it'll be more a case of mobility scooter or cammode generals.

Commode commodores.

 

[TopCat]

It’s good that Magnus was banned from the thread. Keeps it focused

 

[The39thStep]

The house analogy doesn't work because colonisers go beyond taking up residence/rewriting borders. Mass murder, torture, rape, displacement, linguicide, destruction of culture, subjugation, assimilation. Fuck that shit whether it's Russian, English, "British", American or anyone. It's not simply about borders.

There seems to be an obsession with house analogies on here . I am sure there must be some on other social media but I don’t think I’ve seen many .

 

[The39thStep]

Isn't perfidy a war crime?

It is apparently. However I’m not sure if those if those who surrendered and lay on the floor face could possibly have been accused of that .

 

[existentialist]

Ooh. Camo Y fronts?

Camo fleecy dressing gown checking in here. And, lacking an armchair, I'm more yer swivel chair general.

 

[StoneRoad]

Reading backwards earlier on understandingwar (that is ISW) I found this piece ...

Institute for the Study of War

Negotiations cannot end the Russian war against Ukraine; they can only pause it. The renewed Russian invasion in February 2022 after eight years of deadly “ceasefire” following the first Russian invasions of 2014 demonstrates that Russian President Vla

www.understandingwar.org

I found it an interesting summary of the situation.

 

[friedaweed]

There seems to be an obsession with house analogies on here . I am sure there must be some on other social media but I don’t think I’ve seen many .

Yeah mostly houses getting robbed analogies, usually pushed by the southern Jessie cohort. Shirley they've all got those doorbell things now and intruder alarms unlike those of us up north who are still relying on Beryl ont corner who's retired and the Jack Russell hiding behing the gate.

 

[Raheem]

There seems to be an obsession with house analogies on here .

Some of them without proper foundation. Others are little more than a facade.

 

[keybored]

It is apparently. However I’m not sure if those if those who surrendered and lay on the floor face could possibly have been accused of that .

Me neither. Very hard to tell if they were in on it or not. Either way a senseless waste of life.

 

[TopCat]

US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin said China and Russia are seeking a world where force is used to resolve disputes and he vowed the United States will continue to defend humanitarian principles and international law.

Continue to defend eh

 

[TopCat]

Beijing, like Moscow, seeks a world where might makes right, where disputes are resolved by force, and where autocrats can stamp out the flame of freedom.

He added:

There are still rules in war. And if a big power can flout those rules, it encourages others to defy international law and international norms.
We are determined to defend those rules – and especially the bedrock principle of noncombatant immunity.”

Austin said Moscow’s efforts to gain support from countries such as Iran and North Korea create new security challenges for the United States and its allies.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin said China and Russia are seeking a world where force is used to resolve disputes and he vowed the United States will continue to defend humanitarian principles and international law.

Continue to defend eh

 

[Pickman's model]

US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin said China and Russia are seeking a world where force is used to resolve disputes and he vowed the United States will continue to defend humanitarian principles and international law.

Continue to defend eh

Hospitals in countries including Iraq, Vietnam and Panama have reported an increase in cases of aching sides

 

[tim]

Yup. Given the age of some of us it'll be more a case of mobility scooter or cammode generals.

Yes it won't be too long before we get a Chelsea Forum

 

[2hats]

IAEA (via AFP) report shelling around and close to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

AFP News Agency (@AFP)

#BREAKING Powerful explosions' shook area of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant: IAEA

nitter.net

Shelling of Zaporizhzhia is playing with fire, says UN nuclear chief

Rafael Grossi renews appeal for safety zone after series of explosions cause damage at Ukrainian power plant

www.theguardian.com

Seveer of the 95th rifles 🇺🇦🇬🇧 (@Seveerity)

Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant being shelled by the russians again...

nitter.net

​

 

[elbows]

Here is the IAEA statement about that

Update 128 – IAEA Director General Statement on Situation in Ukraine | IAEA

www.iaea.org

Some of it:

In what appeared to be renewed shelling both close to and at the site of Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, IAEA experts at the ZNPP reported to Agency headquarters that more than a dozen blasts were heard within a short period of time in the morning local time. The IAEA team could also see some of the explosions from their windows.

Citing information provided by plant management, the IAEA team said there had been damage to some buildings, systems and equipment at the ZNPP site, but none of them so far critical for nuclear safety and security. There were no reports of casualties. The IAEA experts are in close contact with site management and will continue to assess and report on the situation.

“The news from our team yesterday and this morning is extremely disturbing. Explosions occurred at the site of this major nuclear power plant, which is completely unacceptable. Whoever is behind this, it must stop immediately. As I have said many times before, you’re playing with fire!” Director General Grossi said.

 

[elbows]

Also see their previous statement from November 16th about loss of power at other nuclear power stations in previous days:

Update 127 – IAEA Director General Statement on Situation in Ukraine | IAEA

www.iaea.org

That came a few days after IAEA announced they would be sending people to the other nuclear reactor sites:

Update 126 – IAEA Director General Statement on Situation in Ukraine | IAEA

www.iaea.org

 

[Dogsauce]

Tbh there are a number of causes to how we got here and nato expansion is one of them. But i don't believe it ought to assume the significance as THE cause. There are long term causes and there are short term causes, there are major causes and minor causes. And ignoring any sort of nuance or complexity simply to say the west dunnit seems to me a very facile position

The one ‘cause’ missing in a lot of these discussions is what happened (or nearly happened) in Belarus, and how that might have affected Russia’s actions. The near-loss of another buffer state to ‘western influence’ is I reckon another factor that persuaded them to start being more forceful with another neighbouring state. That may have been more of a factor in creating a cornered animal than a mostly dormant NATO threat.

 

[elbows]

The IAEA presence hasnt helped all that much with trying to get to some of the perpetrator detail when it comes to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. It has helped in that we dont have to rely only on the Russian claims or the Ukranian claims, but since IAEA dont want to point the finger of blame most of the time, they dont really fill in all of the gaps.

Language used and gaps in the reporting on the subject continues to be awkward at times, although the BBC in their recent article did at least point out:

Russia's military accused Ukrainian forces on the other side of the river of shelling the area under its control. There was no immediate word from the Ukrainians who have previously suggested Russian forces shell the area themselves despite having their troops there.

Zaporizhzhia shelling: Explosions at occupied nuclear site in Ukraine

The head of the nuclear watchdog issues an urgent plea after new blasts near the Zaporizhzhia plant.

www.bbc.co.uk

I suppose it is tempting to think that the west might believe that Ukraine is sometimes responsible for these acts, given the way the maximum opportunity to rebuke Russia is not always taken over these incidents, and the lack of clamour to get to the bottom of them, but Im not willing to completely make that assumption.