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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

UKR was a provider of electricity, coal and food to the USSR in massive amounts. It pretty much was the regional engine for much of the Soviet development. Russia would not be Russia today if it were not for the Ukraine back in the day. Them hydro dams dont build themselves you know
 
Do you know what, I've been very careful in my phrasing when commenting on this war, I've tried to avoid the gamification of the war that people engage in on Twitter and Discord, the "armchairs" as you put it.

One slightly bad taste t-shirt doesn't lump me in with them, what I know and don't know I've always tried to be clear about, never professed to be anything other than a remote observer, I know a little, not a lot. Certainly not as much as some on here but really do try to skirt the right side of the line of knowledge/speculation.

I fully support the Ukrainian's in their fight and despite the sadness at the loss of life (on both sides!) I can engage with the goings on in Ukraine as and how I wish. We can't just be wringing our hands all the time, they'll fall off.

Some on here are looking for people to condemn all the time, start with the Russians. They pronounced this nonsense, not me.
Yes.

I try hard to comment on the specific bits of news and strategic developments as the war goes on without resorting to taking any joy in the tragedies of individual deaths on either side.

I do strongly believe in the right of Ukraine to defend itself and retake its occupied territories by (almost) any means necessary though. That support naturally extends to things like celebrating the battlefield victories of Ukraine, arguing strongly against those who would deny Ukraine the right to determine its own path, and sometimes even buying the odd t-shirt that directly goes towards providing humanitarian aid and education to Ukrainians affected by the war in their country.

I do think some of the delight in Russian deaths online has been over the top from time to time, which is why I personally stick to news etc, but using humour to mock Russia, the great military super power's efforts in Ukraine, while raising money for causes that protect Ukrainian lives now and in the future is not something I'm that arsed about to be honest.
 
A daft question but why do people call Ukraine or refer to it asUKR? Is this an acronym for what just seems a bit odd if it’s only abbreviation. I don’t see it with other countries.
 
Some on here are looking for people to condemn all the time, start with the Russians. They pronounced this nonsense, not me.

I'll just stick to saying that the T-shirt makes me uncomfortable. A lot of it has to do with the fact that it seems designed by and for spectators outside of Ukraine. Some of it has to do with overtones associated with the fact that it seems to be specifically celebrating the use of American-made weapons. Some of it has to do with the fact that it's a fun and jokey reference to an aspect of a real life, horrific war.

I wouldn't criticise it if it were made by Ukrainians for Ukrainians. I wouldn't criticise someone actually caught up in the real life consequences of war, making some jokes at the expense of their enemy or even viewing some things as a game for the sake of their own morale, or celebrating the equipment they have to defend themselves with.

When you say "start with the Russians" - what does that mean? The whole point really is that war isn't just some fight between goodies and baddies, it's something that happens because of some wider and complex context, usually some kind of context that allows a relatively small number of people to initiate something, and then take advantage of the fact that it can be quite easy to lead large numbers of people into "goodies and baddies" thinking. What's happening now wasn't pronounced by "the Russians". It's probably still even too much of a simplification to say it was pronounced by Putin.

The way I see it, it's everyone's job to try and always recognise and resist the "goodies and baddies" view because that's a big part what allows wars to start in the first place. Again, if you're in the midst of things and someone's just destroyed your village, then it's not like I'm going to start wagging my finger and giving some lecture about how the Russian soldiers had little option but to follow their orders, and telling you that you mustn't wish bad things on them personally. This is about external observers. The T-shirt is for external observers, and for me it takes too much pleasure in the idea of blowing up the baddies. Yup, it might in fact be necessary, in order to reclaim Ukraine from the Putin regime, to kill and horrifically injure some young Russian men who joined the army because it was one of only a few ways to earn some money, never wanted to fight this war, and maybe didn't even know they were being sent to it. That's an awful and grim reality; it's one of those least terrible of several terrible options types of things and I don't have any alternatives to offer but I don't want a colourful T-shirt marking this fact thanks.

Maybe that's just hand-wringing. It's an explanation of my reaction to the T-shirt design though.

There are lots of other things deserving of much greater condemnation but the T-shirt design, for me, represents something pernicious that's worth keeping an eye on.

I acknowledge the fact that it's being sold for hopefully good causes.
 
Sadly to be expected, but I imagine there will be some dark scenes as Ukraine liberates more territory and uncovers yet more horrors. :(

"We're hunting them down and shooting them like pigs': How the Ukrainians are taking brutal revenge on the collaborators who've betrayed their neighbours - and country - to the Russians"


Sorry its from the Mail.
 
Sadly to be expected, but I imagine there will be some dark scenes as Ukraine liberates more territory and uncovers yet more horrors. :(

"We're hunting them down and shooting them like pigs': How the Ukrainians are taking brutal revenge on the collaborators who've betrayed their neighbours - and country - to the Russians"


Sorry its from the Mail.

Safe link for reading it without going to the Mail's site - archive.ph
 
Get a t shirt with his face on it, it'll be well funny. Bonus points if it's got a 70's/80's aesthetic.

Hahahaha.

The fucking state of some of you on this thread.

Are you all forces/ex-forces or just armchair wannabes? Actually it's pretty easy to see tbh. War's now pretty much like the covid threads - a few people who've got some idea of what they're talking about + loads of useless tosspots who've 'done their research' and are now suddenly experts.
Meh.
 
Maybe that's just hand-wringing.


Yep.


btw, where should we stand on the 'Russian warship go fuck yourself' coffee? Not made in Ukraine, money from sales going there though, featured a ship that did indeed go fuck itself with along with untold 100's of lives that were lost in horrific ways, burning, drowning etc.

Good, bad, meh?
 
Yeah loads of these t-shirt type stuff is just businesses jumping on anything trying to make money on a current thing, it happens with pretty much anything. There's whole commercial outfits that plaster any slogan or photo you want on mugs/t-shirts/whatever... Don't think there's anything significant to be read into any on demand printed item you can find online coming from a factory in China. Apart from the opportunism of capital.
 
Region of Manufacture: China

Apparently there are some mysterious issues affecting manufacturing in Ukraine at the moment, though the Saint Javelin people seem to be doing their best.

Right now we’re starting to make some shirts here in Ukraine. We’re making t-shirts in Dnipro, we actually had a factory in Kremenchuk, it was really close to the mall that got hit [by Russian missiles] ... The woman who’s making our stickers in Kyiv is from the village Peremoha near the city, she was under occupation for like 21 days, living in a basement.

Even though Ukrainian market is a small percentage of our sales, we’re trying to shift the maximum economic value back to Ukraine. Half of our team is in Ukraine, the other half is either Ukrainian diaspora or displaced Ukrainians [in other countries].



 
Like its not tasteful but its part and parcel of modern warfare, same with the videos of rocket firings set to music etc. To an extent you can argue its a huge reason why not every conflict gets the same attention
Is it not the case that all the memes exist as an indication of the west's interest in this particular war - rather than that interest existing because of the memes etc?
 
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