Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[MickiQ]

Quite a few blonde people in Lombardy aren't there? You need the gene from both sides IIRC

Both her parents (and her brother) were all blondes.Never met the grandad who was long dead by then. I've no idea where about in Italy he came from but I have to confess that I thought all Italians were dark haired. I've been Italy about five times and never met a blonde one so if they exist then I have learnt something new today.

 

[Pickman's model]

Both her parents (and her brother) were all blondes.Never met the grandad who was long dead by then. I've no idea where about in Italy he came from but I have to confess that I thought all Italians where dark haired. I've been Italy about five times and never met a blonde one so if they exist then I have learnt something new today.

of course there are blond/e italians just as there are dark scandinavians

 

[bluescreen]

Both her parents (and her brother) were all blondes.Never met the grandad who was long dead by then. I've no idea where about in Italy he came from but I have to confess that I thought all Italians where dark haired. I've been Italy about five times and never met a blonde one so if they exist then I have learnt something new today.

Giorgia Meloni is blonde.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Predictably, Musk’s tweet has been exploited for Russian propaganda.

 

[MickiQ]

Giorgia Meloni is blonde.

Never heard of her but googling her shows some of her early photos with brown hair so the blonde hair may not be natural (I've met blonde Asians and I'm confident that it isn't natural) However I am quite willing to take on trust the statement that naturally blonde haired Italians is a thing despite me never having met any personally.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Never heard of her but googling her shows some of her early photos with brown hair so the blonde hair may not be natural (I've met blonde Asians and I'm confident that it isn't natural) However I am quite willing to take on trust the statement that naturally blonde haired Italians is a thing despite me never having met any personally.

See....




For further clarification.



Anyways, back to Ukraine...

 

[Idris2002]

Never heard of her but googling her shows some of her early photos with brown hair so the blonde hair may not be natural (I've met blonde Asians and I'm confident that it isn't natural) However I am quite willing to take on trust the statement that naturally blonde haired Italians is a thing despite me never having met any personally.

You also get blonde people in Papua New Guinea, where the gene evolved independently of other blonde populations.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

What became the DHSS offices at Tolworth - serried ranks of single-storey brick buildings - was originally an Italian prisoner-of-war camp. I went to school with quite a lot of second-generation Italians...

Interesting- im from Tolworth and went to primary school there, but never knew about the Italian POW thing. There wasnt a huge amount of Italians at my primary, but then that was in the 90s.

 

[StoneRoad]

I am wondering - Just how much of that rail-mounted "convoy" was real kit, as opposed to cardboard models ?

 

[Flavour]

there are plenty of natural blondes in italy, particularly the north, but also, weirdly, sicily. i've met proper gingers from as far south as rome, too. /derail

 

[bluescreen]

there are plenty of natural blondes in italy, particularly the north, but also, weirdly, sicily. i've met proper gingers from as far south as rome, too. /derail

Continuing the derail - there's a map of blond incidence here:

Yes Italians Can Have Light Hair and Blue Eyes - Hardcore Italians

It is a common misconception that Italians must look a particular way. The stereotype is that Italians have dark hair, dark eyes, and olive skin. Nevertheless, hair and eye color vary in Italy and so does skin tone! It is not uncommon to see Italians with lighter eye and hair shades. Italians...

hardcoreitalians.blog

 

[A380]

I’ve seen videos from both Ukraine and Russia about POWs and conditions . Let’s face it they are all part of the propaganda war

The U.K. managed to keep POWs working till 1948 , about 150k worked on the land .

Still loads here… Lots of Italian POWs worked in the Bedford brickworks. When they were released loads came back to the same jobs with their familie which is why the town has such an large Italian community.

 

[editor]

Interesting article about life in the occupied parts of Ukraine, focusing on Kherson, Mariupol and Melitopol, and how Russification (is that the right term?) is affecting everyday life.

A rare glimpse of daily life in occupied Ukraine

Post-apocalyptic is how one resident describes his city, from which many people have fled.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dirty tactics:

But the Russian currency is steadily encroaching. Some welfare payments are already in roubles, which shops are obliged to accept. The only functioning banks are Russian.
To open an account, a Russian passport is required. The same thing applies to jobs in state enterprises.
"That's how they try to get most of the Ukrainians in town to convert to Russian citizenship," Boris says.

 

[existentialist]

Interesting- im from Tolworth and went to primary school there, but never knew about the Italian POW thing. There wasnt a huge amount of Italians at my primary, but then that was in the 90s.

Ah, that might have been a bit late by then. Given that all Italian POWs would have been male, their kids would generally have had their surname, so it would have been more obvious. One generation down, and that would have been diluted somewhat. I was at primary school (Grand Avenue) from 1968-1975. Fuck, that long ago...

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

Ah, that might have been a bit late by then. Given that all Italian POWs would have been male, their kids would generally have had their surname, so it would have been more obvious. One generation down, and that would have been diluted somewhat. I was at primary school (Grand Avenue) from 1968-1975. Fuck, that long ago...

Small world, i grew up on the street (Parkside Crescent) behind Grand Avenue school and played football against them (for Our Lady Immaculate), parents still live there.

I believe the buildings you were referencing have finally after many years of debate been knocked down and a shit load of new build flats going up. Anyone who moves to the area will be a little dissapointed there are no longer any pubs on Tolworth Broadway.

 

[trabuquera]

there are plenty of natural blondes in italy, particularly the north, but also, weirdly, sicily. i've met proper gingers from as far south as rome, too. /derail

Loads of natural blonde/sandy/ginger hair among Sicilians due to the considerable amount of Norse DNA injected during the Norman occupation period (invasion & war from AD999 to AD1130 when the Kingdom of Sicily declared, KoS to 1198 and after that the Normans sensibly intermarried & had families with local elites). Same thing goes for Lebanon and Libya.

 

[The39thStep]

Still loads here… Lots of Italian POWs worked in the Bedford brickworks. When they were released loads came back to the same jobs with their familie which is why the town has such an large Italian community.

Funnily enough it was at a brickworks that I met the Germans .

 

[steeplejack]

ffs, can we stop banging on like weird SS-Obersturmbannfuhrers commenting on the genetic purity of Italian POWs. All that's missing is an eyeball comparison chart and a set of cranial measuring calipers

 

[teuchter]

Loads of natural blonde/sandy/ginger hair among Sicilians due to the considerable amount of Norse DNA injected during the Norman occupation period (invasion & war from AD999 to AD1130 when the Kingdom of Sicily declared, KoS to 1198 and after that the Normans sensibly intermarried & had families with local elites). Same thing goes for Lebanon and Libya.

Apparently this is not supported by evidence, at least according to some:

 

[Cid]

It's not really Kherson itself, though, is it? The attack they're making at the moment is more to the north-east of Kherson, between that place and Beryslav.

Or maybe I'm reading far too much into it, and the goal is simply to collapse that pocket, in the hope that it's enough to trigger further overall collapses in Russian morale.

Given that the Ukrainians seem to be implementing quite a shrewd operational plan, I guess we won't really know until they do it - much as most of us didn't see the Kharkiv offensive coming while they were banging the "Kherson or bust" drum in August.

ETA: I don't know what Ukraine's capabilities are right now, but I wonder if there's a possibility of a third front - perhaps a drive south towards Mariupol to split the occupied south into two? I know that got speculated about when the Kherson offensive began.

Going by this Graun bit from the feed, they may be moving on Nova Kakhovka.

The [western military] officials said the town of Nova Kakhovka, about 50km from the most advanced Ukrainian troops, was “a critical challenge to the viability of the Russian troops in Kherson”. The town has a major road bridge, power station and dam, as well as a canal taking fresh water to Crimea*, so is seen by the western military officials as central to a nexus of communications. “If you can control that it allows you a much greater military advantage, putting areas of the Kherson and Crimea area at risk”.

Though same bit points out that RU artillery is likely stationed on eastern bank, 20,000 RU troops in Kherson itself, likely orders not to retreat. Basically it will likely be a brutal phase of the war.

*If you ever look at liveuamap, the canal is that blue line you've been slightly confused about for ages.

 

[trabuquera]

^ fair enough - as a non biologist/scientist I'm happy to be wrong about the 'origin*' of the fair haired people in southern Italy. But I do know absolutely for certain they are very definitely there!

(*because obviously any 21st century italian or sicilian has multiple lines of origin and all identities are invented)

(and also, to be fair - would you concede that reddit threads, and the entire 23andme enterprise, are at least .... scientifically questionable... as sources of expertise on the extremely tricky interplay between observable DNA evidence, the realities of life on a medieval occupied island and 20-21st century ideas of 'race' ?)

 

[Rob Ray]

UA livemap listing multiple villages falling along the northern front near Kherson in fairly short order, backed by Russian media - another collapse/withdrawal maybe?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Going by this Graun bit from the feed, they may be moving on Nova Kakhova.



Though same bit points out that RU artillery is likely stationed on eastern bank, 20,000 RU troops in Kherson itself, likely orders not to retreat. Basically it will likely be a brutal phase of the war.

*If you ever look at liveuamap, the canal is that blue line you've been slightly confused about for ages.

Yeah the aim is to clearly take Nova, do that you control Kherson which can only supply infantry and no heavy equipment or supplies due to the river.

 

[Petcha]

Could Ukraine invade Russia? Or is that a bit much.

 

[Cid]

Could Ukraine invade Russia? Or is that a bit much.

I mean define Russia and define invade. But broadly no, that would scupper their support very quickly.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Could Ukraine invade Russia? Or is that a bit much.

Shortcut to sunshine flying, so no.


I do wonder what it’s like at the borders Ukraine has reclaimed at this point.

Awkward silence from each side of the border post?

 

[Pickman's model]

Could Ukraine invade Russia? Or is that a bit much.

At this point it wouldn't surprise me. Might be an easier and less sanguinary way to reunite the two countries

 

[Pickman's model]

Shortcut to sunshine flying, so no.


I do wonder what it’s like at the borders Ukraine has reclaimed at this point.

Awkward silence from each side of the border post?

Bad news for smugglers

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah the aim is to clearly take Nova, do that you control Kherson which can only supply infantry and no heavy equipment or supplies due to the river.

Super nova

 

[Petcha]

At this point it wouldn't surprise me. Might be an easier and less sanguinary way to reunite the two countries

I would quite like to see Zelensky at a signing ceremony with weird prancing people in silly hats annexing Russia though. Please make it happen.