Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[The39thStep]

Erdogan reckons he can be the peacemaker

Turkey's Erdogan: Russia's Putin willing to end war

As Ukraine reclaims more land, the Turkish leader says Russia aims to end the war as soon as possible.

www.bbc.com

Now there's a surprise

 

[cupid_stunt]

Tbh if there's one thing we know about the Russian armed forces it's that they're not really in a state to invade anywhere right now and probably won't be for some time to come. The notion that somehow forces which have proved far less potent than expected will successfully invade Moldova, the baltic states and Poland is an utter fantasy

But, that's only because of the western supplied weapons, without those and with a policy of appeasement it would have been a very different story.

 

[Pickman's model]

But, that's only because of the western supplied weapons, without those and with a policy of appeasement it would have been a very different story.

So in other words the scenario you posit has no merit to it. There might have been some point posting it in February. But none in September.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Thought you at least would see the irony of the two announcements on this morning's news a billion quids worth of machines for killing and disabling people a thousand miles away and a token few quid to help those who rely on PIP or DLA here at home.I am not using anyone people close to me stuck in unheated damp homes are petrified contemplating what this winter might bring.

you know i have to go quite a long way down my list of "things the government shouldn't prioritise over PIP/DLA" before i get to "preventing Ukrainians getting bombed, shot, raped and forcibly deported" . but hey ho - each to their own.

 

[cupid_stunt]

So in other words the scenario you posit has no merit to it

It would have done if the west had turned their backs on Ukraine before the invasion.

 

[The39thStep]

Appalling stuff from Truss , she doesn't even pay her energy bills , she claims them off expenses

 

[Pickman's model]

It would have done if the west had turned their backs on Ukraine before the invasion.

Yeh. It is September. The invasion started seven months ago. And even before that support was being offered to a) Ukraine and b) members of nato. So your scenario was never really on the cards, it's a load of nonsense to suppose that any of the baltic states or Poland might have been allowed to fall to Russia. There neither is nor was merit to the notion that if we let Ukraine fall then the russians will be surging across the continent

 

[nogojones]

Are these pro-Russian dipshits tag temaing or something?

You see the majority of those unlucky enough to get caught up in the Russian dragnet of Donetsk and Lushank as just pro-Russian dipshits?

 

[Duncan2]

Appalling stuff from Truss , she doesn't even pay her energy bills , she claims them off expenses

View attachment 343726

Really is Thatcher redux.

 

[Dystopiary]

Thought you at least would see the irony of the two announcements on this morning's news a billion quids worth of machines for killing and disabling people a thousand miles away and a token few quid to help those who rely on PIP or DLA here at home.I am not using anyone people close to me stuck in unheated damp homes are petrified contemplating what this winter might bring.

Russia's been attempting genocide against Ukrainians. I don't begrudge them a penny of all the help they can get.
Of course, I wish we lived in a world where disabled and long-term ill people were treated with respect and dignity.

 

[Duncan2]

Really is Thatcher redux.

How realistic is it that,as Kabbes suggests and I appreciate that he is knowledgeable that Russia are going to allow themselves to be "defanged"as he puts it.They are to the best of my knowledge still a very significant nuclear power??

 

[Dystopiary]

you know i have to go quite a long way down my list of "things the government shouldn't prioritise over PIP/DLA" before i get to "preventing Ukrainians getting bombed, shot, raped and forcibly deported" . but hey ho - each to their own.

They're not prioritising over that though. They can afford to act on both issues.

 

[agricola]

Really is Thatcher redux.

TBF Thatcher would never have said what Truss has, there or since becoming PM. It is incoherence.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Note 'stand up to Russia' not 'stand with Ukraine' because the latter might involve humanitarian support and other such anathemas. If Ukrainians are struggling it's because they didn't have the gumption to set up their own management consultancies.

 

[RainbowTown]

Apparently, Putin is to address the Russian people 8pm Moscow time tonight. Reports also say Sergei Shoigu his minister of Defence will deliver an address straight after. A sign maybe of a greater military mobilization/escalation? This conflict is now about to enter a wholly new phase.

 

[rubbershoes]

They're not prioritising over that though. They can afford to act on both issues.

Well of course, but Duncan2's post that kicked off this discussion seemed to link the two possible expenditures.

 

[kabbes]

How realistic is it that,as Kabbes suggests and I appreciate that he is knowledgeable that Russia are going to allow themselves to be "defanged"as he puts it.They are to the best of my knowledge still a very significant nuclear power??

It is already happening. It has, to a large degree, already happened. Russia are failing, have lost a lot of equipment and people and it has been made clear to them that they will face a united opposition. This all serves to defang them. You can’t use nuclear weapons to invade countries

 

[The39thStep]

Really is Thatcher redux.

I can't recall a similar statement or combo of Thatcher/Falklands War/cost of living crisis tbh , will have to look back to see if there was the same level of crassness. Of course, Truss may simply be trying to echo the statement that Zelenskys wife made and position herself the same as Johnson did. On the other hand, it might be an attempt to see if there is any legs in alluding to those against the rise in energy prices as being somehow for the Russians?

 

[Duncan2]

Well of course, but Duncan2's post that kicked off this discussion seemed to link the two possible expenditures.

Yes because of the yawning gulf between the two amounts does anyone really think the one off payments announced this morning are in any way adequate.Truss is going to throw money at Ukraine now primarily because there's votes in it.Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if she had noticed how well all the expensive crap-hattery on display yesterday went down with the general public.It was right to show respect for the queen but expenditure must have been colossal.We are no longer a great military power we don't have the money to be that .

 

[Nylock]

Apparently, Putin is to address the Russian people 8pm Moscow time tonight. Reports also say Sergei Shoigu his minister of Defence will deliver an address straight after. A sign maybe of a greater military mobilization/escalation? This conflict is now about to enter a wholly new phase.

Maybe he's Going to announce the rusfed accession referenda of the DPR and LPR. Shoigu might follow that up with some generic and specific sabre rattling...

 

[teqniq]

This guy argues that now would be a very bad time for Western countries to slow down or even cease military supplies and that in fact they should be increased:

Putin Is Cornered

The west faces a simple choice: reduce aid to Ukraine and deliver Russia a victory, or else finish the job it has begun.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Nylock]

Or we could be completely blindsided and they're going to announce the complete withdrawal and stand down of russian army forces. Who the fuck knows at this stage....

 

[Bingoman]

Or we could be completely blindsided and they're going to announce the complete withdrawal and stand down of russian army forces. Who the fuck knows at this stage....

Declare war on Ukraine maybe?

 

[Duncan2]

It is already happening. It has, to a large degree, already happened. Russia are failing, have lost a lot of equipment and people and it has been made clear to them that they will face a united opposition. This all serves to defang them. You can’t use nuclear weapons to invade countries

okay it just seems odd to describe a country with a very significant nuclear arsenal as having been "defanged".To me that is.

 

[kabbes]

okay it just seems odd to describe a country with a very significant nuclear arsenal as having been "defanged".To me that is.

It still has spines. You wouldn’t want to risk attacking it. But it’s not going to be striking out again any time soon.

 

[maomao]

Well he's nearly half an hour late so maybe he's still making his mind up which way to go.

 

[Bingoman]

Well he's nearly half an hour late so maybe he's still making his mind up which way to go.

Or theres been a coup

 

[maomao]

You can’t use nuclear weapons to invade countries

No, but if you annex territory you can then defend it, or threaten to defend it, with nukes.

 

[kabbes]

No, but if you annex territory you can then defend it, or threaten to defend it, with nukes.

Didn’t work very well for them though, did it?

 

[maomao]

Didn’t work very well for them though, did it?

Well Ukraine have so far laid off pointing their big stuff at Crimea.