Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
To be honest I think part of the American target audience is China, just as the Americans showed in Vietnam (and Cambodia and laos) what they'd do to defend their interests.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Interesting take. The NVA reportedly had the same view sort of. Beat the US (the most equipped army in the world) and China would leave them alone.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Chomsky argues that the Americans achieved their aim because after eight years (1965-73) Vietnam was in such a state having had more bombs dropped on the country than all the combatant nations used in ww2, the agent orange, the traumatisation of the population, the smashing of the economy, not many other countries would consider the same path.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
It’s a thin as wee Thin Tim McThin winner of last years Mr Thin competition. But that’s all it needs to be.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
I'm surprised you're not calling it a special military operation.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I suspect if there were a referendum on it ‘Defend Plucky Ukraine’ would defeat ‘assuage hunky Vlad’ at least 80% 20%. Any vote in Parliament would be 640 ayes, and that includes the seven non sitting SinnFeiners…
And quite right too.
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Apart from maybe Russia?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
To be fair they're not thinking of going socialist or communist
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Chris Cappy made an interesting comparison in his latest video with Vietnam where he argued that the Russians and to a lesser extent the Chinese were very careful in the support they gave to the North in that their logistics, intelligence and weapon supply was enough to keep the war going and the Americans bogged down without being anywhere near enough to ‘win’ in short time.
Until the weekend it seemed that the US were employing the sincerest form of flattery. But now maybe not?
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
No. Putin is keeping the fascists at bay remember. And not Azov.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Yep, he is the only man big enough and firm enough to keep us safe from the fascists.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
I'm sure that the Ukrainians will reject American and British Imperial aid any day now.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Whilst I'd love to see him fall I'm not sure what follows next is liberal democracy.
Edit. Not that Quora answers are good links, but this chap apparently used to write propaganda in the days of the USSR. Fair enough to be sceptical, but he writes a lot on Russia that's very interesting and he knows his history.
What does a post-Putin Russia look like?
Dima Vorobiev's answer: “What does a post-Putin Russia look like?” In its current state, not pretty. At water coolers, coffee tables, kitchen desks, and on talk shows the nation discusses the most painful ways to finish off the Ukrainians. These Nazis funded by Jewish oligarchs with a Jew for p...
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Who is making those claims? They’ve been involved to some extent since 2014 when Russia last took a bite out of the country, supplying training and weaponry. Intelligence has been provided recently including all the well reported stuff on the massing of troops on the border in the build-up to the war, plus they tipped off Ukraine about the attack on Hostomel airport which thwarted the initial plan to seize Kyiv in a few hours and undoubtedly changed the course of the war.
Weapons and more intelligence have followed, spy and signals aircraft up constantly. The only thing they’re not doing is the actual fighting.
This is known and no secret, the Russians know this and can piss and moan and make nuclear threats but can do nothing sane to stop it. They will be aware this is seen as an existential threat to a large part of Europe (especially after threats they’ve made openly) and that NATO countries will have an interest in defending a state on their border that is under attack.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Who asked our permission for this?
JimW
支那暗杀团
They went in twice in short order iirc so that didn't work out, 78 then again in 80s without looking it up.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Russia. By text vote.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Ooh! Mee-ow!!
Yes, we’ve had zero elections or referenda since 2014, through which people could make their objections to UK defence policy known.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
In our system of government it's parliament that gives, or refuses permission - if you've been watching or listening to parliament/MP's for the last 6 months+ you'll know that MP's are overwhelmingly supportive of government policy - which is financial, logistics, intelligence, training and material support to Ukraine, and economic on political warfare with Russia. the usual suspects might go on Press TV occasionally, but out of 650 they probably represent less than 100 who either oppose UK support, or have qualms about opposing Russia.
If parliament voted 550 to 100 to raising the minimum wage to £20ph you'd probably think that was decisive and beyond opposition - government has a policy, which it briefs opposition MP's about on a regular basis, no one raises any objection, and they proclaim support - this is about the same, so...
As suggested above if it has got to the point when the RAF and USAF are picking the targets with no Ukrainian input then it might seem that the Ukrainians are starting to drop out of the picture.One wonders how many MPs are actually up to speed with the extent to which this war is being not just funded by NATO but conducted by it .Perhaps the result of any parliamentary debate might be a foregone conclusion but we must surely be approaching a point when there should be one .
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Apart from doing all the actual fighing, with a fair amount of dying too. How many US, UK or NATO troops are doing that in your alternate reality?
Neither NATO or Russia are at war, having a debate would be pushing that closer. Ukraine clearly are not been given the tools by NATO to win back any significant amount of territory.
Just enough it seems to show the world who's more powerful and not enough to humiliate Putain in to a full war.
Arming a missile, providing coordinates and instructing a ukr pilot when to press a button is pretty involved but it seems if that happened no one wants to admit it.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
But you suggested Ukraine was 'dropping out of the picture' - which is far from the reality. And no UK, UK, or NATO troops are fighting (unless we stretch the definition to include being involved in the targeting process) but none have been killed have they?
NATO is putting troops in a whole load of places like that for sure, but given the situation that's not much of a surprise is it? Not sure what else they could be expected to do.
NATO is putting troops in a whole load of places like that for sure, but given the situation that's not much of a surprise is it? Not sure what else they could be expected to do.
editor
hiraethified
People have usually been quick to protest against unpopular UK policy. Can't say I've seen many protests against giving Ukraine military aid.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Yep STW would be going full strength on it if they thought there was any widespread popular opposition. Instead they're having to have "teach ins" etc to try and explain why everyone's wrong.
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