Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[tommers]

They've surrendered and become POWs right? Why are we talking about evacuations and I think the BBC said they had "left"??

 

[cupid_stunt]

Russian state TV going cold turkey...

Interesting comment about that from Julia Davis -Columnist @TheDailyBeast, creator of the Russian Media Monitor,

 

[cupid_stunt]

They've surrendered and become POWs right? Why are we talking about evacuations and I think the BBC said they had "left"??

They have been evacuated and are due to be exchanged with Russian military prisoners before returning home.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This looks like good news, some 'interpersonal power conflicts' could be very useful, let the fuckers fight amongst themselves.

A bit more from the ISW assessment, which says there is growing friction between Russian occupation administrations and pro-Russian collaborators in occupied areas of Ukraine, while inside Russia military bloggers are increasingly in-line with western assessments of Russian military failures.

Russian forces in Zaporizhia, are having “serious conflicts” with collaborators due to “interpersonal power conflicts,” in the Zaporizhia region, the US-based think tank cites the region’s military administrations as saying.

"A well-known collaborator in Zaporizhia accused the Russian-installed governor of the area of stealing his 10,000 ruble compensation. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryshchenko additionally claimed that relatives of those mobilized into the forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) are holding a mass protest against mobilization in Donetsk City.

While ISW cannot independently verify these claims, such discontent amongst occupation elements suggests a general lack of planning by Russian authorities in occupied areas, now compounded by increasingly evident Russian losses."

The ISW meanwhile predicted that the “continued disenchantment of pro-Russian milbloggers with the Russian war effort may fuel dissatisfaction in Russia itself, especially if Moscow continues to press recruitment and conscription efforts that send poorly-trained cannon-fodder to the front lines.”

"One such blogger, Igor Strelkov, claimed that the Russian offensive to take Donbas has ultimately failed and that “not a single large settlement “has been liberated. Strelkov even noted that the capture of Rubizhne [a city in Luhansk] is relatively insignificant because it happened before the new offensive in Donbas had begun.

Strelkov stated that Russian forces are unlikely to liberate Donbas by the summer and that Ukrainian troops will hold their positions around Donetsk City.

Strelkov notably claimed that Russian failures thus far have not surprised him because the intent of Russian command has been so evident throughout the operation that Ukrainian troops are aware of exactly how to best respond and warns that Russian troops are fighting to the point of exhaustion under “rules proposed by the enemy.”

LINK

 

[tommers]

They have been evacuated and are due to be exchanged with Russian military prisoners before returning home.

Evacuated to a Russian held town, "escorted" by Russian military and exchanged for Russian POWs.

What's the problem with just saying what it is? Why are we making out this is somethng different?

 

[cupid_stunt]

This article is interesting, focusing on growing discontent from families of missing Russian troops, and also bloggers.

As Russia continues to hide the scale of its losses in Ukraine, more and more information has leaked out, angering the families of Russian soldiers and discouraging even previous supporters of the invasion.
“I look at my government totally different since the war started,” said Tatyana Efremenko, 39, whose son Nikita Efremenko was a conscript on the Moskva missile cruiser when it was sunk in a Ukrainian missile strike one month ago. She is still searching for her son. “There are some very harsh things I would like to say about our leadership, but maybe best if I don’t because they would put me in prison for it.”

In Russian-controlled east Ukraine, wives of fighters have complained on camera that their husbands were left behind as Russian soldiers retreated across the border near Kharkiv. “They aren’t deserters, just those who managed to get away with their lives,” one woman yelled at a local official.

As evidence of the Bilohorivka rout became clear over the last week, even some pro-Russian cheerleaders appeared to be losing faith in the wisdom of the country’s military leadership.

“Until we know the name of the ‘military genius’ who put a battalion tactical group by the river and he doesn’t answer for it publicly, then there will never be reforms in the army,” wrote Vladlen Tatarzky, the pseudonym used by a Russian blogger and former soldier who has more than 300,000 subscribers on Telegram. He has generally supported the war. “How can one not remember comrade Stalin here, who despite the difficult military situation was not afraid to take difficult personnel decisions? If this isn’t done, then no mobilisation will save us.”

Rob Lee, a senior fellow in the Foreign Policy Research Institute’s Eurasia Program who documented some of that backlash to the war, noted that another popular blogger wrote that it was “idiocy or sabotage to make such a mistake three months into the war”.

‘I look at my government differently’: losses in Ukraine test Russians’ faith

Information about the damage being done in Ukraine is leaking out, and discouraging some of those who used to back the war

www.theguardian.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

Evacuated to a Russian held town, "escorted" by Russian military and exchanged for Russian POWs.

What's the problem with just saying what it is? Why are we making out this is somethng different?

That's what I've seen Sky News is reporting, and read on both the BBC & Guardian's websites, who's making it out as something different?

 

[Pickman's model]

That's what I've seen Sky News is reporting, and read on both the BBC & Guardian's websites, who's making it out as something different?

Reliant on the msm I see

 

[Sue]

That's what I've seen Sky News is reporting, and read on both the BBC & Guardian's websites, who's making it out as something different?

I think tommers means why aren't they just saying they surrendered/were taken prisoner rather than 'evacuated', 'escorted' etc.

 

[Dystopiary]

He must have Putin's approval to be doing this twice in 10 days. So the official story is now that Ukraine can field an army of 1 million who will die for their country, equipped by American lend-lease and Nato, and that Russia has almost no support from any other countries. Desperate stuff. No mention of Nazis or ethnic cleansing or Ukraine not being a country or the new Russian republics or any military successes at all. It must be a huge shock for the viewers. How can Putin retain any credibility with them?

He definitely must, yeah. Just seen cupid_stunt's link in #14,312 that

 

[Dystopiary]

This looks like good news, some 'interpersonal power conflicts' could be very useful, let the fuckers fight amongst themselves.









LINK

Igor Strelkov aka Igor Girkin isn't just a blogger, he's a far-right MRGA former FSB guy who was heavily involved in the War in Donbas and annexation of Crimea, and suspected war criminal.

Some thoughts on his criticism of the invasion, and why he's allowed to say that stuff (so far!):

Thread by @mdmitri91 on Thread Reader App

 

[frogwoman]

Girkin really is fash scum.

 

[Smangus]

Girkin must be a right wally.

 

[NoXion]

Yes, based on the evidence that we can all see, I do feel lucky. And if wrong, the planet could benefit from a human cull anyway, so there’s not much to lose here…

I'm on board with your assessment of Russian nuclear readiness, but you completely spoiled it with this adolescent misanthropy.

Fuck misanthropy.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm on board with your assessment of Russian nuclear readiness, but you completely spoiled it with this adolescent misanthropy.

Fuck misanthropy.

Yeah, 'it's not gonna happen and we should all die anyway' isn't a great argument tbh

 

[maomao]

Girkin must be a right wally.

Underrated pun of the year.

 

[8ball]

Fuck misanthropy.

The occasional misanthropic day is allowed.

 

[NoXion]

I mean there's literally a far-right group in Ukraine called Misanthropic Division, that alone should be enough to tell you where such thinking leads.

So again, fuck misanthropy. It leads you to some truly dark places.

 

[maomao]

I'm on board with your assessment of Russian nuclear readiness, but you completely spoiled it with this adolescent misanthropy.

Fuck misanthropy.

Really? Which assessment? He gives three different assessments as his misanthropy unravels.

And the misanthropy is far from adolescent. It's the misanthropy of a practised victim blamer and defender of paedophiles.

Anyway, even if theirs didn't work, over 100 million Russians would die so there is no eight digit compromise.

 

[planetgeli]

defender of paedophiles.

Fuck's sake man. You know this comes across as you just using a terrible crime with real victims so you can win an argument on the internet?

It's not cool in any way.

 

[8ball]

I was confused as to who was defending paedophiles. Is this old beef going on here?

 

[Pickman's model]

The occasional misanthropic day is allowed.

Every monday

 

[maomao]

Fuck's sake man. You know this comes across as you just using a terrible crime with real victims so you can win an argument on the internet?

It's not cool in any way.

I already know I won't win.

 

[frogwoman]

Seriously?

 

[planetgeli]

Nobody wins. Bit like Ukraine.

Unless your a weapons manufacturer.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nobody wins. Bit like Ukraine.

Unless your a weapons manufacturer.

Even then it's not like everyone's a winner

 

[planetgeli]

Even then it's not like everyone's a winner

Well of course there's the surplus value of labour

 

[Pickman's model]

Well of course there's the surplus value of labour

I just thought some weapons have proved better than others

 

[8ball]

Well of course there's the surplus value of labour

Are you conflating surplus value and surplus labour?

 

[Pickman's model]

.