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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

The Dreadnought race at the start of the last century was an exercise in deterrence and we all know how well that turned out. And, not to forget the poor fuckers on both sides who died horribly at Jutland, for all the money spent and ingenuity spent, those weapons didn't have much of an effect on the conflict.
It was the opposite of a deterance. As Dreadnoughts rendered existing fleets ineffective it was throwing away the deterance that came from RNs policy of be bigger than the next 2 navies combined. (not sure how that's applicable to Ukraine and nuclear arsenals)
 
As deterrence it failed because there was still a war.
As a strategic weapon, it was brilliant. Germany was immediately blockaded, and only once in the entire war did they give a serious try at breaking the blockade.

Where it fell down is that the Grand Fleet could have been much more useful, but the Admiralty was terrified of losing too many hyper-expensive weapons. So it ended up being nothing more than the German HSF was - a fleet in being, doing nothing. It hardly seemed worth the cost for the effect it had. 100 more cruisers instead of dreadnoughts could effect the blockade just as well, and be cheaper to boot.
 
Yeah, it is. It's probably incidental switching between figures at the meeting for video purposes. Just happens to be the focus of that particular clip.
 
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The broad translation of this recent sabre rattling seems to be 'if you move things towards the border, we will also do that'. It seems pretty empty. Putin knows NATO is precisely zero threat to him directly, and that he can do precisely fuck all to Finland in any case... It's just they've all got to sound the right notes to keep the whole facade propped up.
 
Although looks like Turkey are putting the kibosh on this whole NATO thing anyway.
I doubt that will be the end game. It’s a good tactic for them to object in order to get something they want, but it would be a bad move to dig in.
 
I doubt that will be the end game. It’s a good tactic for them to object in order to get something they want, but it would be a bad move to dig in.

He has dug in. Although you're still entirely right of course, all things changeable. But as pickman's notes above there are some fairly deep issues here. Over to the other thread for this.
 

I am not a fan of his, but its hard to argue with quite a lot of that (if those are his views) - even the PKK/SDF one, which the US and Turkey are probably never going to agree on but which could be managed with the right level of leadership diplomatic activity.

Instead though there is a noticeable absence of that level of diplomatic activity, as there is with more than a few countries. I know he is old but Biden really does need to start on the humble pie now.
 
Some sort of prisoner swap/evacuation happening at Avostal apparently.
With Ukraine predicting that Russia will be defeated around August, I was wondering whether some of the Azovstal defenders might hold out until then, and emerge victorious. Maybe they could be kept going with air-dropped supplies?
 
With Ukraine predicting that Russia will be defeated around August, I was wondering whether some of the Azovstal defenders might hold out until then, and emerge victorious. Maybe they could be kept going with air-dropped supplies?

The UA were doing that at an earlier point with some helicopters low in off the sea, had to put a stop to it after the RU discovered their little wheeze. I think they lost at least one helicopter.

Azovstal is miles behind the lines now and surrounded by thousands of RU troops, anything coming in by air would be hugely vulnerable. The Russians have made some massive boo boos but they're not without the ability to shoot down lots of stuff, especially slow moving transport.
 
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