Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They don't mention Japan much in the gpw plus the USSR benefitted from loads of us (and UK) military aid, not to take away that 90% of German casualties on the eastern front and the vast numbers killed in the USSR.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Many didn't actually think this was going to happen. Their leadership didnt think this would actually happen.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Expat Russians are likely to have their social media monitored and can easily be declared 'foreign agents' and disappeared should they return to Russia at any point.
Prevent Russia from having a functioning airport outside the capital within hours of invading?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think that is right
ska invita
back on the other side
hmm, im not sure about that. US intelligence was certain about a full invasion, though the date moved a little. Almost certainly this intelligence was shared with 'allies'.
What individuals reckoned would happen is one thing, but the state as a whole must have made provisions for it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Really cannot judge what the leadership of Ukraine thought was likely to happen by relying on their public statements. Keeping up appearances, saying what they deemed it appropriate to say, etc.
I get very depressed reading the political history of Ukraine since the end of the Soviet union. Unpleasant and not very subtle levels of corruption and oligarch control. There will probably be no shortage of willing puppets in the next chapter.
ska invita
back on the other side
True the world over
Maybe they can phone home. I was listening to interviews with Russians and Ukrainians here. Many said they were in touch/ speaking to family at home and Russians here were standing in solidarity with their Ukrainian friends and neighbours.
Maybe they didn't think Putin would invade beyond the 2 separatist areas.
elbows
Well-Known Member
In Ukraine the structures, connections and even publicly proclaimed political positions and parties are already well in place.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I dont agree. The plan for taking Kiev and installing a puppet regime has been well discussed publicly for ages.
Dont confuse public denials and talk of resistance for the privately acknowledged reality. Morale propaganda.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
What are you talking about? I've just been watching some of their laughable coverage.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I see Paul Merton has embarked on a new career as a Ukrainian diplomat
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
What do you mean by sanctions that might hurt the U.K.?
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
The entire British media became a Ukraine fanzine weeks ago.
2004
www.theguardian.com
Ian Traynor: US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev
Analysis: Ukraine, traditionally passive in its politics, has been mobilised by young democracy activists and will never be the same again.
Fair enough but the ordinary people were not in on the plans and have been left scurrying now to try to get themselves away from active zones.
They were out and about shopping and living their lives yesterday as normal.
Either they didnt think it would happen or they were resigned to it happening.
surreybrowncap
“Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand"
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Thank heavens for the BBC
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
I think it's the speed of it that has taken many by surprise. My money was on him doing it but not this wide and not this fast.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Well, at least it's more balanced, as is Sky, switching between the two, they have both been giving airtime to Russian spokespeople, and the bullshit flowing directly from Putin's mouth.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The great difficulty he has now is extricating himself as I can't imagine any Ukrainian government could ever trust him to abide by the provisions of any armistice or peace treaty
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
My senitments exactly.
Georgia 2008 - he could just cripple Ukraine's military, annex/consolidate Donetsk and Luhansk, and leave.
That is the new best case scenario...
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