Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[dilute micro]

What's this about wealthy American interests again?

Yeah this is the "stop the bloodshed" line of thinking that's bound to show up at some point. Let Russia have something and they'll stop killing you.

Anybody convinced that Putin sent in his army to keep what they already took from Ukraine?

 

[frogwoman]

The significance is that its the Koch brothers sending that email and justifying not pulling out of Russia with it

 

[teqniq]

What's this about wealthy American interests again?

Quelle surprise, Koch industries innit:



Eta I see you beat me to it frogwoman but it's Koch singular these days. One of the fuckers died last year.

 

[dilute micro]

"Stop the bloodshed" will defeat Ukraine. Haven't all the outsiders playing greek gods with Ukraine over the last 30 years fucked them over enough already? If Ukraine has the will to fight we're morally obligated to support them. They truly are fighting our war, the next world war. I really believe that Putin and his inner circle are (or were) bent on retaking former territories. It's good to always keep in mind that they don't see us the way we see us. We see our strengths. They see weaknesses. It doesn't matter who's right.

 

[Chz]

Astonishing figure I saw in the paper today was that between the refugees of the 2014 invasion and the current one, one in every 10 people in Poland is Ukrainian.
I don't see how they can keep up that level of support for their neighbours. I know there are some tight bonds between the peoples, but how long before there's a backlash in Poland? Little Englanders got upset at 500k Poles here, and now Poland has 3.5M Ukrainians.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit


Ukrainian mothers are writing their family contacts on the bodies of their children in case they get killed and the child survives. And Europe is still discussing gas, - Anastasiia Lapatina, Ukrainian journalist

 

[frogwoman]

Russian teacher ‘shocked’ as she faces jail over anti-war speech pupils taped

Fears of ‘Stalinisation’ of society after Irina Gen was called in by spy agency and prosecuted over recorded message

www.theguardian.com

 

[dilute micro]

Charles Koch says that the US should drop virtually all sanctions and push for a resolution that includes a mineral water/volcanic ash mud bath and an aromatherapy massage for His Excellency Vladimir Putin.

 

[Petcha]

Russia supplies arms to half the world. They don’t need to buy them in.

Well the link someone else posted above might suggest that's not quite the case

Revealed: how UK firms continued to sell weapons to Russia after it annexed Crimea

UK firms have been granted dozens of licences to export millions of pounds of military goods to Putin’s Russia – even after it was sanctioned for snatching Crimea from Ukraine

www.nationalworld.com

 

[LDC]

Well the link someone else posted above might suggest that's not quite the case

Revealed: how UK firms continued to sell weapons to Russia after it annexed Crimea

UK firms have been granted dozens of licences to export millions of pounds of military goods to Putin’s Russia – even after it was sanctioned for snatching Crimea from Ukraine

www.nationalworld.com

I mean it shouldn't happen, but they really are tiny figures, insignificantly so. Also in there it's licenses to export, not that they necessarily were in the end. £1.4 million of aircraft parts is like probably a wing or some wheels or something.

 

[Petcha]

I mean it shouldn't happen, but they really are tiny figures, insignificantly so. Also in there it's licenses to export, not that they necessarily were in the end. £1.4 million of aircraft parts is like probably a wing or some wheels or something.

This is true, didn't read the figures. I guess just a symbolic gesture.

 

[Cid]

The significance is that its the Koch brothers sending that email and justifying not pulling out of Russia with it

Brother these days, David is now late and unlamented.

 

[a_chap]

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit


Ukrainian mothers are writing their family contacts on the bodies of their children in case they get killed and the child survives. And Europe is still discussing gas, - Anastasiia Lapatina, Ukrainian journalist

View attachment 317418

And only posted yesterday on here...

Beyond heart-breaking

 

[Artaxerxes]

Russia supplies arms to half the world. They don’t need to buy them in.

Given current performance that market shares going to go right the fuck down.

 

[teqniq]

Having a little time on my hands this afternoon, I read this thread which in itself is interesting:



which in turn led me to this thread:



to which someone replied with a full translation:

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian journalist]

Disclaimer: What you are going to read is direct translation of the article written by russian journalist. That’s what real #Russia wants…

medium.com

It's proper batshit crazy. It talks about denazification, a lot.

 

[A380]

.... That is the kind of of stuff that gets jumped on by conspiracy theorists as proof it's all some planned money making scheme by, well we know who they normally blame...

Not the Jooooooooooooooooooos surely?

 

[A380]

Having a little time on my hands this afternoon, I read this thread which in itself is interesting:



which in turn led me to this thread:



to which someone replied with a full translation:

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian journalist]

Disclaimer: What you are going to read is direct translation of the article written by russian journalist. That’s what real #Russia wants…

medium.com

It's proper batshit crazy. It talks about denazification, a lot.

Oh well that all seems fair enough then...

Pity they appear to have failed at Point 1.

 

[The39thStep]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

Serbia's been doing a couple and the odd small one here and there.

 

[spitfire]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

There was a big one in Berlin. I’ll try and get some links later.

Also Cyprus.

 

[nogojones]

What absolutely baffles me, absolutely, is how (presumably) usually normal young men can suddenly become such monsters. I mean, I cannot fathom executing a family. Or anyone. I just can't. What flips their switches. Apparently loads of them were very fucking drunk but still. I'm fairly sure I'd just refuse and shoot the fucker telling me to do it.

You'd like to hope so, but sadly studies of German troops in WWII, Americans in Vietnam and psychological experiments all bring out very similar depressing answers. Around 20% of people involved in these units enthusiastically participate in these crimes, about 50-60% participate , but show some restraint (they'll still rape and murder if ordered to) and only about 10-15% refuse or avoid committing atrocities.

It's comforting to believe Mai Lai was an aberration, and the fault of a few hothead officers, NCO's and troops, but it would be a lie. It was much closer to standard operating procedure than an aberration.

Mai Lai may have been one of the most upsetting single incidents but the US focus on bodycount as a metric for how well they were doing ensured that civilians were targeted throughout the Vietnam war. Up to two million civilians died (through actions on both sides).

Yes. Body count was the main metric that the American forces judged success on. From the very top of the chiefs off staff, right down through the command chain. Dead Vietnamese people were proof that the war was working. It's what got officers promoted and what got them nice cushy desk jobs.

A couple of good books that cover this phenomenon are War Without Fronts and Ordinary Men

Neither are particularly cheerful reading, but they demonstrate the potential inhumanity of man, especially if the command and control structures are lacking.

 

[LDC]

There was a big one in Berlin. I’ll try and get some links later.

Also Cyprus.

Yeah one in Athens as well.

 

[maomao]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

They had a pro Ukrainian one in Good Kreuznach.

 

[friedaweed]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

Maybe they should be rounded up and canned..yer know... like they would in the motherland.

 

[spitfire]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

Here we go.

‘Motorcade of shame’: outrage over pro-Russia displays at Berlin rally

Protest aimed to draw attention to hostility towards Russians but included pro-war elements

www.theguardian.com

Loads of video on twitter but mostly from Putinbots so sift through it at your leisure.

https://twitter.com/search?q=berlin%20russia%20rally&src=typeahead_click

ETA:

A pro Ukraine one took place today.

 

[planetgeli]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

I've posted before about Montenegro (off there next week!). They've had a few.

Pro-Russian Democratic Front paralyses Montenegro with road blockades

Thousands of supporters of the pro-Russian Democratic Front blocked 17 key roads across Montenegro on February 24. The blockades, which had ...

intellinews.com

That one wasn't sparked by the war but had sections within it that were ultimately nothing but pro-Russia and it's claim to Ukraine.

There's a few dodgy links there between Serb Nationalists, Montenegrins and Russians.

 

[The39thStep]

Maybe they should be rounded up and canned..yer know... like they would in the motherland.

Might be the reason they emigrate ?

 

[zahir]

Wasn't aware that there were pro Russian demos in Europe ( which I assume this is) .Has anyone seen any others in other countries?

There was this in Athens:

Moscow orders probe into alleged assault against pro-Russia motorcade | eKathimerini.com

Russia’s chief investigator on Monday ordered an official examination of what he said were allegations that Russian nationals were targeted during a pro-Russia motorcade in Athens, Russian state news agency TASS reports.

www.ekathimerini.com

Russia’s chief investigator on Monday ordered an official examination of what he said were allegations that Russian nationals were targeted during a pro-Russia motorcade in Athens, Russian state news agency TASS reports.

Alexander Bastrykin, head of the Russian Investigative Committee, ordered that a probe be opened into the circumstances of the alleged assault against demonstrators protesting in solidarity with Russia and the capital’s Russian-speaking population on Sunday, the report says.

According to the report, demonstrators, including an underage child, were attacked by a group of people holding Ukrainian flags. The attackers also damaged some of the cars taking part in the motorcade, it said.

According to local media reports, the demonstrators, many of them waving Greek and Russian flags and honking their horns, drove by Syntagma Square, in front of the Greek Parliament, which was at the time hosting a pro-Ukraine rally.

Some of the vehicles were reportedly spotted emblazoned with the letter “Z,” which is seen as symbolizing support for Russia’s war in Ukraine. The logo was first spotted on the side of Russian tanks and military vehicles amassing on the border with Ukraine.

Sunday’s protest took place as Ukraine accused Russian forces of carrying out a “massacre” in the town of Bucha, northwest of the capital Kyiv. Western governments reacted to images of dead bodies there with calls for new sanctions against Moscow.

 

[mojo pixy]

to which someone replied with a full translation:

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian journalist]

Disclaimer: What you are going to read is direct translation of the article written by russian journalist. That’s what real #Russia wants…

medium.com

That's frighteningly off the wall, barely any internal logic but where it does have some, it's in the form of a literal and quite sincere inversion of reality. Nuts.

I'm pretty sure this bit:

"The Banderite elites must be eliminated; their re-education is impossible. The social “bog,” which has actively and passively supported them through action and inaction, must go through the hardships of war and internalize the lived experience as a historical lesson and the redemption of its guilt."

actually points at the entire "west", because

"The collective West is in itself the architect, source, and sponsor of Ukrainian Nazism, while the Banderite supporters from Western Ukraine and their “historical memory” is just one of the tools of the nazification of Ukraine. Ukronazism poses a much bigger threat to the world and Russia than the Hitler version of German Nazism"

I can even see who this will appeal to, and as pointed out by frogwoman either upthread or elsewhere, there's a reason Putin's kremlin has been investing so heavily in reactionary (and above all, irrational) conspiracism via RT etc. What's happening in Ukraine is intended as just the beginning of a long and serious project, that clearly isn't meant to end at Ukraine.

 

[steeplejack]