spitfire
Walty McWaltface
Did NATO/Eu send helicopter type ordnance? I thought it was all (or most) anti tank/anti air ground launched stuff.
Maybe some of the ex Warsaw Pact countries may have but not seen anything about it.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Did NATO/Eu send helicopter type ordnance? I thought it was all (or most) anti tank/anti air ground launched stuff.
Maybe some of the ex Warsaw Pact countries may have but not seen anything about it.
Cid
Proper break this time
Yeah I assumed you meant a bit deeper into the twitter rumour mill... I think those sources have - generally at least - proved themselves to be pretty on the ball.
There's an important point here, that far from there being a democratic liberal west in opposition to an authoritarian undemocratic East, neoliberal globalisation has created a global trend towards totalitarianism by almost systematically undoing any form of social solidarity and undermining all non-elite forms of civil society.
There's another thread about what "the left" should do about the war. I think rather than cheerleading for "anti-imperialist" Russia or the "liberal democratic" west, we need to be trying to highlight the continuity and connection between anti-democratic trends in the west and those in places like Russia, China and India. The left should strive to establish common cause with democracy/civil rights activists in those countries and connect them with resistance to oligarchy in the west.
10 years ago, it was all about opposing austerity and saving what was left of the welfare state. Now we need to recognise that we have already regressed to the pre-Chartist stage and we need to focus on ways to re-establish genuine democratic participation and accountability in a way which is more meaningful than voting every 4 years for the marginally lesser evil who don't do anything they promise anyway. Building a movement around re-inventing democracy is a lowest-common denominator foundation which has the most potential for creating the widest possible coalition.
gosub
~#
Seems unlikely with respect to the attack on Russian soil that actually happened. Foes mean that isn't a line in the sand worth thinking about
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Helicopter attack was all their own kit (pictures of fragments of the missiles used are out there) , though could well be NATO intelligence pointing them at the targets (though the oil depot isn’t exactly hard to find). It doesn’t seem very contentious to me. I suspect the denials are just to sow a bit of confusion and paranoia. They’ve a history of similar low-flying attacks to evade radar in the Donbas since 2014, so well within their capabilities. Less than a ten minute flight into enemy territory at 5am.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
It does look bad, but there is quite a lot of repetition and some dishonesty, e.g. destroyed Ukrainian vehicles being claimed as Russian (debunked by tank nerds, only for those with a bit too much emotion invested in it all to then claim it must have been a captured vehicle being used by Russia so all OK, no good guys got hurt please…)
One thing I have noticed on several recent attack videos where vehicles in convoys/groups have been struck is how troops in accompanying vehicles all bail out and scatter like rats. Being in an armoured vehicle is now one of the least safe places to be in battle. It must be fucking terrifying, something goes bang up ahead and nobody had any idea whether it’s a mine/IED, drone strike or anti-tank munition which could be launched from as far away as 5km. All the time under the watchful eye of a drone guiding the ‘enemy’. I can’t imagine the mental state of troops, death being dished out abruptly and seemingly randomly. No wonder they’re retreating. War is fucking horrible and traumatising, weeks of it will screw up your head.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Btw, for those not aware, one of the reasons why there are many more pictures/videos of destroyed Russian stuff is because Russian troops aren’t allowed to have phones, and even if they did I suspect they can’t exactly data roam in a country they‘re ar war with. In contrast Ukraine troops and civilians can provide a wealth of useful propaganda images. Russian attacks have targeted mobile phone infrastructure, they don’t want bad news getting out (or locals in occupied areas snitching on troop positions - some civilians have had phones confiscated).
Exceptions to this have been DNR/LNR troops who are largely on home territory, and the Chechen lot who have been nicknamed the ‘TikTok battalion‘ with loads of video postings of them posing in Mariopul shooting at nothing.
Exceptions to this have been DNR/LNR troops who are largely on home territory, and the Chechen lot who have been nicknamed the ‘TikTok battalion‘ with loads of video postings of them posing in Mariopul shooting at nothing.
Yossarian
⏭️
Russia to its troops on 24 Feb: "Your Ukrainian brothers will greet you as liberators when you arrive to free them from fascism."
Five weeks later: "On your way out, don't forget to booby-trap the bodies of the people you murdered."
apnews.com
Five weeks later: "On your way out, don't forget to booby-trap the bodies of the people you murdered."
Zelenskyy: Retreating Russians leave many mines behind
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is warning his people that retreating Russian forces are creating “a complete disaster” outside the capital as they leave behind many mines, even around homes and corpses.
apnews.com
Report from Irpin
kyivindependent.com
eta: video report of the clear up in Irpin (warning - graphic footage of bodies in the streets)
www.rferl.org
Foreign volunteers help fight Russia in Irpin
Irpin, Kyiv Oblast -- The urban ruins of the Battle of Kyiv contain many secrets. Irpin, a town just northwest of Ukraine’s capital, a battlefield of ruined homes, charred streets and broken glass, now seems forsaken in a lull. But beneath the debris is a living and buzzing underworld.
eta: video report of the clear up in Irpin (warning - graphic footage of bodies in the streets)
'People Are Being Torn To Pieces': Inside The Liberated Kyiv Suburb Of Irpin
RFE/RL reporter Levko Stek visited the recently liberated Kyiv suburb of Irpin on March 30-31. He saw dead bodies, shattered buildings, and burned-out Russian military vehicles in the streets as sounds of distant fighting still echoed in the background.
www.rferl.org
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dilute micro
esse quam videri
And evidence of efforts to cover their tracks by burning the bodies.
Looking at the social media associated with Russia's 331st Guards Parachute Regiment.
Summary
Summary
The heavy losses of an elite Russian regiment in Ukraine
The 331st Guards Parachute Regiment based in Kostroma, Russia, has lost many soldiers in Ukraine.
www.bbc.co.uk
Yeah I read an artical about that yesterday. Tank crew firing on unarmed civilians, families, at least one member of which had apparently had their arms up in surrender / no threat jesture. Abandoned Russian camp indicating poor discipline, empty booze bottles, rubbish strewn about.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
What is happening in Ukraine’s newly occupied territories? – Riddle Russia
Ivan U. Klyszcz investigates what is known about life in the newly occupied territories
ridl.io
dilute micro
esse quam videri
This will reveal whether the support for Ukraine was on principle or looking out for self-interests.What is happening in Ukraine’s newly occupied territories? – Riddle Russia
Ivan U. Klyszcz investigates what is known about life in the newly occupied territories
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I wonder if anyone there has the capacity to start evidence gathering now?
ska invita
back on the other side
i dont follow...what are you thinking?
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Ukraine isn't planning to give up on Donbass or Crimea and much less any other areas that Russia wants to make republics so the fight will continue. Russia's best strategy at this point is to cut off the military support for Ukraine. If they can do that then they have a good chance of controlling Ukraine and having the benefits of the east and south - Crimea. From Putin's standpoint he knows that the US, at least, was shaky on Ukraine going back to the early 2000s when the effort was underway to disarm Ukraine. So he probably imagines the military support is not solid and that it could dry up. That's what he needs. Russia can't keep fighting as it is. We're going to see a lot of bluffing on Russia's part as they get closer to being unable to fight.
Cid
Proper break this time
Er... side note on this... why does the medic in that video have a B&W US flag? Usually associated with right wing US shit afaik. E.g variant with a blue stripe for 'thin blue line' type stuff.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Most likely but I guess it might not even matter. The BBC report from yesterday showed some of the civilian bodies in Bucha pairing it with drone video along with what was said to be evidence of trying to hide the murders - could be that or maybe they just wanted to burn the stench of the bodies. It's a mess to try and separate bullets being shot into civilians from cluster bombs intended for the same purpose.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
I think a lot of US soldiers wear these but they have been coopted by so many of the right wing fuck knuckles that we see it would be natural to associate it with them but it's a standard thing to see on tactical gear, subdued flag.
The patch I noticed was the medic's patch which was a Swiss flag, which was confusing? Swiss or medic?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It's just a low profile (maybe IR reflecting) US flag patch. It's very common, don't think you should read much into it. Might be there as came with donated medic kit bag, might have been sent it by relative or something, or he might be a US volunteer, etc. Kit among them does look eclectic so could just be bit random.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Not sure the US thin blue line patches are any more right wing that the Union Flag ones here. Here they are fund raisers for the Police Dependants Trust and got popular when body armour stated coming with Velcro flag patches. There are similar to the thin red and thin green line for ambulance and fire and the three colour Jesip flags (as an aside I really don’t like being in a world where paramedics need to be issued body armour).
Perhaps a US urb could confirm if the version over there is fash or is a similar charity?
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
Most of the soldiers confirmed as dead there are either officers or NCO's. The ranks are either much better at keeping their heads down or the toll is significantly higher.Looking at the social media associated with Russia's 331st Guards Parachute Regiment.
Summary
The heavy losses of an elite Russian regiment in Ukraine
The 331st Guards Parachute Regiment based in Kostroma, Russia, has lost many soldiers in Ukraine.www.bbc.co.uk
Cid
Proper break this time
Oh it absolutely is a rw thing... associated with blue lives matter type stuff, which is why it stuck out to me. e.g Jan 6th:
But any of above explanations may be right... dunno. Just struck me as odd.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
The higher grades tend to have their bodies repatriated, and press/social media articles about funerals and memorials (hence Twitter types aggregating lists of these posts). The lower grades just rot in the fields and no one official gives a shit.
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