Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
we cannot hang on their every word in the absence of the full text or speech, we can only guess what they mean. and that doesn't advance anything here.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
we cannot hang on their every word in the absence of the full text or speech, we can only guess what they mean. and that doesn't advance anything here.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Do you think it might be a good idea to start a separate thread about the long term causes of this war and how hard done by Putin is? I'm not saying the history isn't interesting or relevant, it is, but the same things are being said over and over and over again on this thread about NATO and how awful shock capitalism was for Russia and I don't think it serves much more purpose on this thread.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i wouldn't, hence the uncertainty in my statement
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
your purpose on this thread and rd2003's purpose on this thread are two entirely different purposes.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Fuck it I'll do it me self.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if you want a job done properly...
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Aren't people examining a variety of subjects over and over in the thread, not least among them the military experts?
prunus
Tick tock.
Bugger Bognor.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Flavour
hang the bankers
There needs to be some slightly more serious military disaster for the Russian forces, one which Putin understands and accepts the gravity of, before any face-saving retreats and negotiated settlements for Donetsk/Luhansk and Crimea are contemplated. And now that they've basically got a land corridor between Crimea and the East I'd imagine they'd insist on keeping that too. Can't see the current Ukraine government agreeing to it.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Slough by John Betjeman (1906 - 1984)
Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough!
It isn't fit for humans now,
There isn't grass to graze a cow.
Swarm over, Death!
Come, bombs and blow to smithereens
Those air -conditioned, bright canteens,
Tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned milk, tinned beans,
Tinned minds, tinned breath.
Mess up the mess they call a town-
A house for ninety-seven down
And once a week a half a crown
For twenty years.
And get that man with double chin
Who'll always cheat and always win,
Who washes his repulsive skin
In women's tears:
And smash his desk of polished oak
And smash his hands so used to stroke
And stop his boring dirty joke
And make him yell.
But spare the bald young clerks who add
The profits of the stinking cad;
It's not their fault that they are mad,
They've tasted Hell.
It's not their fault they do not know
The birdsong from the radio,
It's not their fault they often go
To Maidenhead
And talk of sport and makes of cars
In various bogus-Tudor bars
And daren't look up and see the stars
But belch instead.
In labour-saving homes, with care
Their wives frizz out peroxide hair
And dry it in synthetic air
And paint their nails.
Come, friendly bombs and fall on Slough
To get it ready for the plough.
The cabbages are coming now;
The earth exhales.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Military experts are related to the invasion itself. The history of the war's causes are a bit repetitive on this thread, IMO anyway. I've made a new thread to discuss it on instead should anyone want to.
prunus
Tick tock.
i set you up for george v's last words, bugger bognor
We aim to please
I was so very tempted, but I resisted.i set you up for george v's last words, bugger bognor
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Very reassuring and innovative contribution by the Ukrainian Ambassador Vadym Prystaiko to the Home Affairs Select Committee about allegations of racism at the Ukrain borders. Many of us non experts wouldn't have thought that segregation was the solution.
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ska invita
back on the other side
and thats the diplomatic ambassador
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Shoulda, woulda, orcaSome different porpoises, earlier.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
OH RIGHT so it was only with a market economy that a rich elite, corruption and poverty appeared in Russia
gosub
~#
As true as that is US has supported war by proxy since 2014.Breakfast pizza
He’s saying it loud and clear because the US want everyone to know they are not aggressors in this war.
Stepping on nato soil is obviously a red line. Would something like gas attacks in ukraine be enough to force western involvement? I don’t think any of us know the answer to that. Lets hope the sanctions and ukrainian resistance are enough to make russia turn back.
gosub
~#
Star wars was a ruse by Reagan which destroyed the Soviet Union economically it also lead to Russia currently having better anti ballistic missile tech than the US currently do , though nothing is impenetrable That said BAE did do an amazing test a little while ago ...managed to hit a crise missile with a field gun...tech us getting smarter
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
CIA always training killer pigeons when planning for a coo.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Everybody does it. And now Russia is acting like they've never heard such a thing as a country arming another country in a war.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Need to avoid westplaining in judging his remarks
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Assuming that the Russians do meet a military setback bad enough to make even Putin accept that he has to pull back then what about sanctions? After what he's done is the West really going to say 'OK Vlad you can keep the extra bits of Ukraine that you have grabbed and we will just go back to how things were before?'
I suspect that in that case, sanctions will stay until there is regime change in Russia
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think that the best we can hope for is a setback bad enough to give those around Putin a head-wobbling moment, and get some kind of Stauffenberg outcome (only more successful)...
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Has anybody said that?OH RIGHT so it was only with a market economy that a rich elite, corruption and poverty appeared in Russia
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Does anybody think Kyiv could be that setback? I've thought that as Putin begins to face the reality of losing, Russia will pour it on militarily and threatwise as an all out last ditch effort to turn it around. I think we've seen a change of hands in strategy with Russia broadening the bombings and the movement towards Kyiv. If this gets beaten down people in Russia will start to talk about pulling out...uh, somehow.
ska invita
back on the other side
tbf the level of rich elite off the back of privatising state assets and the rich elite of apparatchiks of the old Soviet Union are a very different measure. Where there is concentrated power there is corruption, but the equivalence between the two regimes breaks down pretty quickly when you look at the detail.OH RIGHT so it was only with a market economy that a rich elite, corruption and poverty appeared in Russia
There is some direct continuity between the systems though too of course
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