Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[bimble]

Either way it's fully intended to paint a target on the UK's back.

fully intended as in Mr wallace quite fancies an actual world war with plucky Britain in a key role? I hope not. Think he's just enjoying striding about making stupid belligerent noises in the media.

 

[contadino]

fully intended as in Mr wallace quite fancies an actual world war with plucky Britain in a key role? I hope not. Think he's just enjoying striding about making stupid belligerent noises in the media.

I think the uk, with it's armed services cut to the bone is a bit like my dog when he was a pup - happy to bark at bigger dogs, but ran round and hid behind my legs if the big dog barked back.

 

[RD2003]

How close is Russia to collapse?

Russia is now as closed off to the world as the Soviet Union was before Mikhail Gorbachev made his first tentative steps towards glasnost more than 40 years ago. Pretty much all the progress that post-Soviet Russia had made towards becoming a ‘normal’ country has been reversed within the space...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[_Russ_]

Yeah it's funny there's a big hoohah about fighter jets when there's already NATO Turkish drones and NATO Polish manpads etc already laying waste to Russian ground and air forces.

While of course we dont know whats actually going on and it makes sense not to advertise, I thought the released info was that there was only 20 or so Turkish Bayraktar Combat drones in the country
has further supply been acknowledged?

​

 

[bimble]

This looks like a pretty clear eyed & sobering view of the military situation:

As Russia’s Military Stumbles, Its Adversaries Take Note - The New Yo…

archived 8 Mar 2022 18:22:39 UTC

archive.ph

It also raises the obvious point that whilst there's some truth in the impression that corruption has led to it being a 'potempkin military' the numbers still matter.

 

[_Russ_]

I wonder what's quietly going on while there's all this heat and light about flying MiGs to Ukraine

Hopefully much more than we are being told

 

[frogwoman]

‘This is a fossil fuel war’: Ukraine’s top climate scientist speaks out this is very important imo

 

[RD2003]

Are we cheering on Ukraine to destruction?

We’re just ten days into Russia’s assault on Ukraine and the western world has painted itself in Ukraine’s colours. Cities and towns have hung out Ukrainian flags and lit their public buildings in blue and gold. The BBC has changed the pronunciation of the Ukrainian capital from Kiev to Kyiv...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Sprocket.]

I see the Americans are supplying Patriot Missile systems to Poland, they never miss an opportunity to sell weapons.

Poland signs $4.75 billion deal for U.S. Patriot missile system facing Russia

Poland signed the largest arms procurement deal in its history on Wednesday, agreeing with the United States to buy Raytheon Co's <RTN.N> Patriot missile defense system for $4.75 billion in a major step to modernize its forces against a bolder Russia.

www.reuters.com

 

[dilute micro]

I still don't get it. why would Germany be some kind of obvious sticking point in the cunning plan.

As far as landing planes in Germany for the trade off, that has been identified as geographically moving the planes away from Russia's ability to strike at Poland before the planes get traded. Since everything is out in the open and it's no secret that the planes would be used against Russia, Russia might see it beneficial to destroy the planes on the ground claiming that Poland is now a part of the war.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are we cheering on Ukraine to destruction?

We’re just ten days into Russia’s assault on Ukraine and the western world has painted itself in Ukraine’s colours. Cities and towns have hung out Ukrainian flags and lit their public buildings in blue and gold. The BBC has changed the pronunciation of the Ukrainian capital from Kiev to Kyiv...

www.spectator.co.uk

What do you think?

 

[MickiQ]

The Polish, and Baltic, UK and Romanian view is that Putin is going to escalate anyway - for them it's an argument over whether, by putting up an umbrella, you make it rain...

For those eastern states, as well as having a huge pool of familial ties to Ukraine, shared experiences, and a far deeper level of political and societal solidarity with Ukraine, there's the very real practicality that despite Russia beginning to get it's shit in order, and even if/when they win, the war itself, and the economic sanctions, have done a huge amount of damage to the Russian Army.

The longer the Ukrainians are able to stay in the fight, the worse that damage gets. The worse that damage gets, the less effective the Russian Army will be against the eastern states when Russia tries it on with them.

For the eastern states, this is as much their war as it is Ukraine's.

Are you currently in the Baltic States? I seem to remember a post from you a while back mentioning the fact that the Army had given you loads of snazzy clothes ready for a visit there.

 

[dilute micro]

I’d say the most immediate issue is not to escalate things by giving them NATO jets.

Which weapons haven't belonged to a NATO country?

 

[Artaxerxes]

I think the uk, with it's armed services cut to the bone is a bit like my dog when he was a pup - happy to bark at bigger dogs, but ran round and hid behind my legs if the big dog barked back.

It’s dog evolution, wolf calm and majestic, British bulldog giving it all that due to bad ownership, and now we’re aggressive little chihuahua barking forever

 

[kebabking]

Are you currently in the Baltic States? I seem to remember a post from you a while back mentioning the fact that the Army had given you loads of snazzy clothes ready for a visit there.

I'm currently in Wiltshire - I was in Estonia before Christmas.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see the Americans are supplying Patriot Missile systems to Poland, they never miss an opportunity to sell weapons.

Poland signs $4.75 billion deal for U.S. Patriot missile system facing Russia

Poland signed the largest arms procurement deal in its history on Wednesday, agreeing with the United States to buy Raytheon Co's <RTN.N> Patriot missile defense system for $4.75 billion in a major step to modernize its forces against a bolder Russia.

www.reuters.com

TBF that's been on the cards for sometime, they are defence systems, so hardly surprising they are going ahead now.

Russia moans about it, and claims...

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Vladimir Titov told state-run Sputnik news website in November that Patriot deployments were part of a U.S. plot to surround Russia with missile defense systems “under the pretext of mythical threats to security”.

Yeah, right, but then also claims...

This month, Russian President Vladimir Putin unveiled an array of new nuclear weapons, saying they could hit almost any point in the world and evade a U.S.-built missile shield.

 

[nogojones]

I see the Americans are supplying Patriot Missile systems to Poland, they never miss an opportunity to sell weapons.

Poland signs $4.75 billion deal for U.S. Patriot missile system facing Russia

Poland signed the largest arms procurement deal in its history on Wednesday, agreeing with the United States to buy Raytheon Co's <RTN.N> Patriot missile defense system for $4.75 billion in a major step to modernize its forces against a bolder Russia.

www.reuters.com

The worlds arms manufacturers will be creaming themselves to get their weapons noticed. Who needs trade fairs when you have live demonstrations

 

[Sprocket.]

TBF that's been on the cards for sometime, they are defence systems, so hardly surprising they are going ahead now.

Russia moans about it, and claims...



Yeah, right, but then also claims...

What I found interesting was that Biden spoke about this straight after he made a statement about not getting involved in the passing on of the Polish MiGs.
I concur it obviously has been mooted for sometime but having Patriot missile defences also provides a resource for the American forces already standing in Poland, just getting Poland to finance it in my cynical opinion.

 

[MickiQ]

TBF that's been on the cards for sometime, they are defence systems, so hardly surprising they are going ahead now.

Russia moans about it, and claims...



Yeah, right, but then also claims...

Based on evidence to date and as someone with some exposure to Russian tech (admittedly non-military in nature) I would take any claims of Russian technological prowess with a pinch of salt.

 

[kebabking]

The worlds arms manufacturers will be creaming themselves to get their weapons noticed. Who needs trade fairs when you have live demonstrations

I'm not sure the Russian arms manufacturers are expecting a flood of worldwide orders....

 

[nogojones]

Are you currently in the Baltic States? I seem to remember a post from you a while back mentioning the fact that the Army had given you loads of snazzy clothes ready for a visit there.

That's kebabking on the left

 

[Pickman's model]

I see the Americans are supplying Patriot Missile systems to Poland, they never miss an opportunity to sell weapons.

Poland signs $4.75 billion deal for U.S. Patriot missile system facing Russia

Poland signed the largest arms procurement deal in its history on Wednesday, agreeing with the United States to buy Raytheon Co's <RTN.N> Patriot missile defense system for $4.75 billion in a major step to modernize its forces against a bolder Russia.

www.reuters.com

Yeh. What happens if the Russians launch 100 scuds and thus take out 100 of these expensive missiles? Is it like toner cartridges, they're automatically reordered? Or might scud 101 or some more advanced missile get through past the empty patriot launchers? Sure if I was VP I'd be shifting my aged obsolete missiles towards the front having suddenly found a use for them

 

[MickiQ]

I'm currently in Wiltshire - I was in Estonia before Christmas.

Did you return the snazzy gear or is that yet more of my tax dollars vanishing into the ether?

 

[kebabking]

Did you return the snazzy gear or is that yet more of my tax dollars vanishing into the ether?

eBay bruv....

 

[RD2003]

The worlds arms manufacturers will be creaming themselves to get their weapons noticed. Who needs trade fairs when you have live demonstrations

Perhaps time for another reminder.

Chris Hedges: War profiteers are fueling this crisis

While debates about the war in Ukraine center on the motivations of Putin and NATO powers, the merchants of death profiting from war are—literally—making a killing.

therealnews.com

 

[dilute micro]

I thought we were told the Ukrainian airforce was largely intact? Also how useful will old jets be by the time they’re actually delivered and made serviceable? It seems like a grand gesture with possibly little practical benefit - most or all of Ukraine’s airfields are within range of Russian cruise missile strikes and there will be plenty of air defences ranged against them.

This would allow the Ukrainians to be more aggressive. To break an army surrounding your city would require it being chipped away. I'm not sure that without air attack the Ukrainians could get it done.

 

[Supine]

I see the Americans are supplying Patriot Missile systems to Poland, they never miss an opportunity to sell weapons.

Poland signs $4.75 billion deal for U.S. Patriot missile system facing Russia

Poland signed the largest arms procurement deal in its history on Wednesday, agreeing with the United States to buy Raytheon Co's <RTN.N> Patriot missile defense system for $4.75 billion in a major step to modernize its forces against a bolder Russia.

www.reuters.com

Are you saying Poland shouldn’t be ready to defend itself?

 

[Pickman's model]

This would allow the Ukrainians to be more aggressive. To break an army surrounding your city would require it being chipped away. I'm not sure that without air attack the Ukrainians could get it done.

Over several millennia of sieges a whole body of work has been written about sieges and how to break them. A vast amount of supplies will have to reach the besiegers - food, fuel, ammunition, medicine - and flows from the siege too, like medical evacuation. The army around Kiev might be too strong to be rapidly chipped away. But the traffic to and from it seems to me readily susceptible to ambush. Easier and quicker to break an army in the field by harassing its lines of communication and supply, by infiltrating lines and killing sentries and so on, than by directly taking them on in a conventional battle. If there's Zionist sof and so on coming to fight the Russians then imo they could do worse than play a role in a guerrilla war in the middle of the larger one

 

[frogwoman]

.

 

[frogwoman]

If there's Zionist sof and so on coming to fight the Russians then imo they could do worse than play a role in a guerrilla war in the middle of the larger one

How do you know this is going to happen?

there are likely to be 'zionists' fighting for the russians too, i'd have thought. russia is a massively important country to israel.