Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Artaxerxes]

Home Office continuing to be cunts

 

[not-bono-ever]

‘Beyond understanding’: Odesa braced to see if Putin attacks city of such resonance for Russians

Russian warships have been moving ominously in the sea between Odesa and Crimea. Each morning, Odesa’s remaining residents wake up and check their progress

www.theguardian.com

I am well familiar with the places in those pics- i got my breakfast at the corner mini mart in the centre big pic. Just a hundred metres from the steps and thence the port.The Londonskaya hotel at the top of the steps was Putins favorite in the city.

 

[Ax^]

Home Office continuing to be cunts

banning the russian oil would harm england is the excuses

tory party still following a line

 

[frogwoman]

The ROC have often played a disgraceful role in all this but there are honourable exceptions

 

[Ming]

banning the russian oil would harm england is the excuses

tory party still following a line

The chickens are really coming home to roost aren’t they? You don’t get those donations for free.

 

[ohmyliver]

Which is kind of weird given Ukraine is somewhere where communism is explicitly banned (and treated like other countries ban nazis), I would have thought the US far right would eagerly have their back, but that would involve thinking about it for themselves rather than sticking their faces straight in the misinformation trough and guzzling up whatever shit Putin has coiled out for them.

Isn't Putin seen as the leading global enemy of liberal globalists tho, a Christian Nationalist who is anti LGBTQ rights etc?

 

[Raheem]

Home Office continuing to be cunts

Even given the ubercunts we have in charge, this is astonishing. €75! Per person! According to what I just googled, an average weekly wage in Ukraine is about €110.

 

[xenon]

Which is kind of weird given Ukraine is somewhere where communism is explicitly banned (and treated like other countries ban nazis), I would have thought the US far right would eagerly have their back, but that would involve thinking about it for themselves rather than sticking their faces straight in the misinformation trough and guzzling up whatever shit Putin has coiled out for them.

Would be interested to read more about how this is playing with the US far right. Considering a lot of them are / were drawn to fighting with the Azov Battalion. There must be some strange arguments and cognitive dissonence going on in those sess pool Telegram channels.

 

[Fez909]

This is interesting. I wonder if China have had enough now?

China to provide humanitarian aid to Ukraine

Hopefully they mean Ukraine proper and not one of the occupied territories....

 

[existentialist]

The chickens are really coming home to roost aren’t they? You don’t get those donations for free.

I guess a few Russian voices are whispering "remember. we OWN you" in a few Tory grandees' ears right about now.

 

[Cid]

This is interesting. I wonder if China have had enough now?

China to provide humanitarian aid to Ukraine

Hopefully they mean Ukraine proper and not one of the occupied territories....

I'd be cautious of reading too much into their position... Yesterday Wang Yi emphasised the importance of China-Russia relationships and talked up how together they resist the revival of cold war thinking and ideological confrontation, how their relationship is 'rock solid'... But they're also seemingly trying to reform US relations. Their NPC and CPPCC sessions are in progress at the moment, so there is a lot of talk, and a lot of propaganda going about. It is not easy to get any firm read on what's going on there... I personally don't really have the energy to dig into it, maybe one of the more experienced China people on here will. It might be worth a separate thread.

I'll add that the CCP must have some kind of read as to what's going on (though if Putin teaches us anything, it's that there's a huge risk of internalising your own propaganda). How that plays out... Difficult to say. Just that I doubt that relationship is anywhere near as solid as Wang Yi is saying. I suspect it will be more a case of China needing to keep its energy secure, perhaps with potential economic and media expansion into Russia (though maybe that seems a bit of a poisoned chalice).

 

[bimble]

I found this a worthwhile and uncomfortable read. Particularly relevant to recent chat here is his point 6 about ‘unsatisfactory outcomes’.

Can We Have an Intelligent Adult Conversation About Russia? ❧ Current Affairs

<p>We should simultaneously condemn Putin’s criminal war of aggression and be careful not to slip into arrogant insanity ourselves. Wars bring out the worst in all sides, and creating a world without war will require the United States to be self-critical rather than self-righteous.</p>

www.currentaffairs.org

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'd be cautious of reading too much into their position... Yesterday Wang Yi emphasised the importance of China-Russia relationships and talked up how together they resist the revival of cold war thinking and ideological confrontation, how their relationship is 'rock solid'... But they're also seemingly trying to reform US relations. Their NPC and CPPCC sessions are in progress at the moment, so there is a lot of talk, and a lot of propaganda going about. It is not easy to get any firm read on what's going on there... I personally don't really have the energy to dig into it, maybe one of the more experienced China people on here will. It might be worth a separate thread.

I'll add that the CCP must have some kind of read as to what's going on (though if Putin teaches us anything, it's that there's a huge risk of internalising your own propaganda). How that plays out... Difficult to say. Just that I doubt that relationship is anywhere near as solid as Wang Yi is saying. I suspect it will be more a case of China needing to keep its energy secure, perhaps with potential economic and media expansion into Russia (though maybe that seems a bit of a poisoned chalice).

With western finance cut off, Swift, Visa etc. Russian banks say they will use China’s UnionPay system.

I have no idea but would imagine that system interacts with the western systems, so China could be forced to make a choice and I’d make it a bet they won’t choose faux ideology over lucre.

 

[two sheds]

I found this a worthwhile and uncomfortable read. Particularly relevant to recent chat here is his point 6 about ‘unsatisfactory outcomes’.

Can We Have an Intelligent Adult Conversation About Russia? ❧ Current Affairs

<p>We should simultaneously condemn Putin’s criminal war of aggression and be careful not to slip into arrogant insanity ourselves. Wars bring out the worst in all sides, and creating a world without war will require the United States to be self-critical rather than self-righteous.</p>

www.currentaffairs.org

Yep good balanced piece. The sort of writing that would get you expelled from the Labour Party.

 

[Spymaster]

With western finance cut off, Swift, Visa etc. Russian banks say they will use China’s UnionPay system.

I have no idea but would imagine that system interacts with the western systems, so China could be forced to make a choice and I’d make it a bet they won’t choose faux ideology over lucre.

It would also take ages to implement. New computer systems, reissue new cards, credit checks, acceptances, etc., all whilst Russia is under sanction or being boycotted by the companies it would need to do a lot of that stuff.

 

[kabbes]

It would also take ages to implement. New computer systems, reissue new cards, credit checks, acceptances, etc., all whilst Russia is under sanction or being boycotted by the companies it would need to do a lot of that stuff.

Yes. Something that happens a lot is that people get mixed up between the shape of a solution and an actual solution. An idea is good and they can leave the details to the nerds that care about that stuff. But good ideas are a dime a dozen — it’s executing on the idea that takes the hard work and is usually where things fail. Just ask Putin’s generals right now about the importance of caring about logistics.

 

[Cid]

So again we've got western media just uncritically reporting humanitarian corridors. The source they're all using is Interfax, and just says this:

MOSCOW. March 8 (Interfax) - The Russian military said it declared a ceasefire and opened humanitarian corridors from Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, and Mariupol from 10:00 a.m. on March 8.

"For safe evacuation of civilians from populated areas, a ceasefire is declared and humanitarian corridors are opening from Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, and Mariupol from 10:00 a.m. today," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said.

Russia earlier suggested to Ukraine establishing continual communication on issues relating to evacuation of people from cities. Corridors envisage ways of evacuating people from Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, Mariupol to Russia, the Russian National Defense Control Center said.

I mean fuck, surely it cannot be that hard to confirm proposed routes of evacuation and their viability. After all presumably everyone in those cities is supposed to know what they are.

e2a: Who knows, maybe they have more of an inside line, but can't see any evidence of that.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Ireland shows up the UK, they have already taken 2,000 Ukrainians & expecting to be taking many more, according the report currently on Sky.

 

[Cid]

So again we've got western media just uncritically reporting humanitarian corridors. The source they're all using is Interfax, and just says this:



I mean fuck, surely it cannot be that hard to confirm proposed routes of evacuation and their viability. After all presumably everyone in those cities is supposed to know what they are.

e2a: Who knows, maybe they have more of an inside line, but can't see any evidence of that.

Does seem to actually be meaningful this time.

 

[steveseagull]

Second Russian General taken down. Possibly by snipers. Is it usual to have such high ranking officers at the front line?

 

[Sprocket.]

Ireland shows up the UK, they have already taken 2,000 Ukrainians & expecting to be taking many more, according the report currently on Sky.

But of course Ireland is still in the EU. Unlike here where the xenophobic scumbags spent the last decade removing this country from, in an attempt to appease their voters by returning east Europeans to their country of origin.
And are still dragging their feet in an effort to continue this unwritten policy.

 

[Dogsauce]

Second Russian General taken down. Possibly by snipers. Is it usual to have such high ranking officers at the front line?

Covered in the other thread. Apparently generals have been moving to the front to motivate troops (whether that’s their own choice is debatable). Rumours were that this was a grad missile strike which also took out a lot of other officers.

What may be of more interest is who provided the intelligence/target details, assuming it wasn’t just a lucky strike.

 

[LDC]

Second Russian General taken down. Possibly by snipers. Is it usual to have such high ranking officers at the front line?

Definitely unusual to have them killed!

 

[Pickman's model]

Second Russian General taken down. Possibly by snipers. Is it usual to have such high ranking officers at the front line?

more than 300 soviet generals (disregarding the suppressed and executed) were killed in the second world war, about 40 american generals were killed in the same conflict, five american generals were killed in vietnam: and at least one soviet general in afghanistan. so it's not unknown for them to be in danger's way

 

[Pickman's model]

Definitely unusual to have them killed!

over 200 british generals were killed, wounded or taken prisoner in the first world war

 

[LDC]

over 200 british generals were killed, wounded or taken prisoner in the first world war

I didn't know that gem of weird pub quiz trivia, but that was also over a much longer time in a different age of warfare. In Afghanistan the UK had one Lt Col killed maybe?

 

[ska invita]

I found this a worthwhile and uncomfortable read. Particularly relevant to recent chat here is his point 6 about ‘unsatisfactory outcomes’.

Can We Have an Intelligent Adult Conversation About Russia? ❧ Current Affairs

<p>We should simultaneously condemn Putin’s criminal war of aggression and be careful not to slip into arrogant insanity ourselves. Wars bring out the worst in all sides, and creating a world without war will require the United States to be self-critical rather than self-righteous.</p>

www.currentaffairs.org

Everything in that is basically what ive been trying to say less eloquently on this thread. I would also say that in #6 the degree of what Ukraine has to give up will be more than is suggested, as the author doesn't talk about succeeding territory

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't know that gem of weird pub quiz trivia, but that was also over a much longer time in a different age of warfare. In Afghanistan the UK had one Lt Col killed maybe?

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

--Rudyard Kipling

of course by 2001 the british army had learned not to send many senior officers, being as no doubt the fate of elphinstone's army still freezes bowels in the mod

 

[belboid]

I didn't know that gem of weird pub quiz trivia, but that was also over a much longer time in a different age of warfare. In Afghanistan the UK had one Lt Col killed maybe?

It’s about one a week, so the russkies look bang on the average

 

[LDC]

It’s about one a week, so the russkies look bang on the average

Bang on average (I like what you did there...) for a war 100 years ago though. Sounds about where they are militarily.