Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[RD2003]

Both these could be true, minus the deliberate exaggeration.

After WW2 anti-Russian fighting continued for another 10 years in Ukraine and the Baltic States. It took the same sort of timeframe to pacify Chechnya. The population of the Ukraine, what's left of it, will remain overwhelmingly hostile Putin and the Russian state for decades to come.

There is no knowing what Putin might try next. Maybe nothing. Maybe invade Moldova, or one of the Asian ex-Soviet republics. Maybe one of the Baltic states. Maybe other forms of aggression, e.g. Cyber warfare.

The point being that if holding down Ukraine (or even winning there in the first place) is, as we're constantly told, going to be impossible, how is it going to be possible to hold down several other countries, some of which are in NATO (or even invade them in the first place)?

 

[not-bono-ever]

BTW I have contributed to the server fund now

 

[two sheds]

TBF, it's not clear who exactly RD2003 is referring to by "we". I assumed it was referring to general commentary on this conflict.

by the tone it seems to be addressing most people on urban

 

[andysays]

TBF, it's not clear who exactly RD2003 is referring to by "we". I assumed it was referring to general commentary on this conflict.

OK, I've put RD2003 on ignore now, so I may have missed some of the nuance in the conversation.

 

[RD2003]

TBF, it's not clear who exactly RD2003 is referring to by "we". I assumed it was referring to general commentary on this conflict.

I was.

 

[RD2003]

by the tone it seems to be addressing most people on urban

No, it isn't always about us.

 

[existentialist]

OK, I've put RD2003 on ignore now, so I may have missed some of the nuance in the conversation.

There was no nuance.

 

[two sheds]

I was.

why the sarcastic tone then? If you just posted like this below - rational and making a valid point - then nobody would have a problem.

The point being that if holding down Ukraine (or even winning there in the first place) is, as we're constantly told, going to be impossible, how is it going to be possible to hold down several other countries, some of which are in NATO?

 

[RD2003]

why the sarcastic tone then? If you just posted like this below - rational and making a valid point - then nobody would have a problem.

Why not a sarcastic tone? Sarcasm always has a place.

But some of you are starting to derail again by writing about just another poster.

 

[Pickman's model]

why the sarcastic tone then? If you just posted like this below - rational and making a valid point - then nobody would have a problem.

rationality is overrated

 

[TopCat]

by the tone it seems to be addressing most people on urban

"It"?

 

[belboid]

Why not a sarcastic tone? Sarcasm always has a place.

But some of you are starting to derail again by writing about just another poster.

There are times when acting the dick has a use. And their are times when it just makes you look like a twat. Ironically.

 

[TopCat]

Loads of posters on this thread have been deliberately contentious and inflammatory. Enough of this bullying shit towards people who don't agree with you. i won't let it go even if it fucks the thread up.

 

[RD2003]

There are times when acting the dick has a use. And their are times when it just makes you look like a twat. Ironically.

Ah well, I consider myself a bit of a twat anyway. Some people would do well to do likewise.

 

[belboid]

Loads of posters on this thread have been deliberately contentious and inflammatory. Enough of this bullying shit towards people who don't agree with you. i won't let it go even if it fucks the thread up.

Things is, he's really shit at it. It's just the bogstandard Putinesque bullshit.

 

[TopCat]

Ah well, I consider myself a bit of a twat anyway.

So what if you are? You are in good company on this thread. . We have war mongers here, the completely ignorant and one of the most thick posters on the entire boards. Everyone has a voice.

 

[dilute micro]

I'm not sure he says that?

Late in the intro. He says something like, "a lot of people are getting their analysis from western generals who look at all the casualties...". I'm saying the western generals know what's up.

 

[RD2003]

So what if you are? You are in good company on this thread. . We have war mongers here, the completely ignorant and one of the most thick posters on the entire boards. Everyone has a voice.

 

[NoXion]

The point being that if holding down Ukraine (or even winning there in the first place) is, as we're constantly told, going to be impossible, how is it going to be possible to hold down several other countries, some of which are in NATO?

Who's saying it's impossible? I've seen people saying that it would be difficult (to varying degrees given differences of opinion and different analyses of available info), but that's not the same thing. Seems to me that a lot will depend on how far Putin and his cronies are willing/able to go.

 

[andysays]

So what if you are? You are in good company on this thread. . We have war mongers here, the completely ignorant and one of the most thick posters on the entire boards. Everyone has a voice.

Sorry about that. Would you like me to stop posting?

 

[RD2003]

Ukrainian government still lobbying for a nuclear stand-off (or worse).

Ukraine’s culture ministry has called for closing the skies over Ukraine because Russian forces are “destroying Ukrainian cultural sites”.

Oleksandr Tkachenko, Ukraine’s minister of culture and information policy, said most of Putin’s “war crimes” in his country had been “committed from the air”, according to a statement by the ministry.

Russia’s missiles and planes are deliberately destroying historic centers of big cities. Putin wants to destroy Europe’s heritage and culture, wipe it from the face of the earth.

The statement warned:

A mad dictator threatens to destroy St. Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv, a UNESCO church built in the 11th century.
Hundreds of innocent victims, the total destruction of churches, cathedrals and museums - is the price of the still opened sky over Ukraine.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ukrainian government still lobbying for a nuclear stand-off (or worse).

Ukraine’s culture ministry has called for closing the skies over Ukraine because Russian forces are “destroying Ukrainian cultural sites”.

Oleksandr Tkachenko, Ukraine’s minister of culture and information policy, said most of Putin’s “war crimes” in his country had been “committed from the air”, according to a statement by the ministry.


The statement warned:

but what do you think?

 

[Ax^]

Loads of posters on this thread have been deliberately contentious and inflammatory. Enough of this bullying shit towards people who don't agree with you. i won't let it go even if it fucks the thread up.

I blame Nato and it's warmongering

*shakes fist at sky

 

[Rimbaud]

Third episode. I recommend this even if it is 20 minutes.

He does make some good points. A friend of mine who did an MA in Central Asian Security Studies and knows a bit about Russian military said something similar, they are attacking in waves and don't really care about soldiers dying.

However, I don't think Russian financial meltdown and the young and educated fleeing the country en masse is part of the plan, unless Putin truly is bent on senseless destruction for its own sake - which I don't think is the case.

I think maybe the war is within the scope of Russia's worst case scenario. Russian economic collapse probably wasn't part of the plan though.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

What's happening with the russian facebook (etc) trolls/bots? I read somewhere that a lot had been closed down, is that true?

There are plenty posting in Hungarian. Share feed from some family there are absolutely unbearable.

 

[two sheds]

"It"?

the response

 

[Yossarian]

Eh, trawl around on social media for long enough and you'll find support for pretty much any position.

That law about going to prison for disseminating 'fake news' about the war has just been passed, unanimously, no debate. It is also now a felony to 'discredit' the Russian army.
View attachment 312746

The law has powers against "fake news" that Trump could only dream of - apparently one of the main things they want to crack down is video of Russian attacks on civilian areas.

The law also targets individuals who repost material on social media, after Russian authorities warned journalists to verify news with official sources. Russia has banned the words “war,” “invasion” and “attacks,” and it insists that its forces are doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/

 

[NoXion]

He does make some good points. A friend of mine who did an MA in Central Asian Security Studies and knows a bit about Russian military said something similar, they are attacking in waves and don't really care about soldiers dying.

However, I don't think Russian financial meltdown and the young and educated fleeing the country en masse is part of the plan, unless Putin truly is bent on senseless destruction for its own sake - which I don't think is the case.

I think maybe the war is within the scope of Russia's worst case scenario. Russian economic collapse probably wasn't part of the plan though.

Human wave attacks haven't been effective since the invention of automatic firearms. If that's what the Russian forces are doing, then they're chucking their solders into the grinder for no real gain.

 

[RD2003]

but what do you think?

I think the whlole thing is an utter disaster 30 years in the making. Don't you?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

I think maybe the war is within the scope of Russia's worst case scenario. Russian economic collapse probably wasn't part of the plan though.

Right now in Poland, Ruble is worth zero. The anger over here is simply unbelievable. We are all a combination of enraged/sad/worried.

Warsaw: