Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[SpookyFrank]

it's been switched off.

You don't really 'switch off' a nuclear reactor. Everything dangerous is still sitting there.

 

[cupid_stunt]

You don't really 'switch off' a nuclear reactor. Everything dangerous is still sitting there.

I think they were referring to the live stream, not the reactors.

 

[LDC]

Third episode. I recommend this even if it is 20 minutes.

The book The Russian Way of War that he mentions is free PDF online btw.

 

[bimble]

Opening the news every morning i'm braced for nothing at all good but 'nuclear power plant on fire' wasn't even on my bingo card.

 

[TopCat]

Shame we shut all of our coal mines and spunked the oil reserves of the north Sea.

 

[tim]

TBF, bombing a cave in which a relatively small number of enemy are hiding is a bit of a different prospect from bombing a civilian residential area.

Yes, clearly, Afghan peasant lives don't matter

 

[existentialist]

Yes, clearly, Afghan peasant lives don't matter

I am sure that probably was a factor, but the point still remains that the two situations are qualitatively different. Let's not get too binary about this.

 

[weepiper]

Christ. I feel a bit sick reading the news this morning.

 

[LDC]

Christ. I feel a bit sick reading the news this morning.

It's OK, Dominic Raab is on the BBC and he's wearing a blue and yellow ribbon, phew, things are looking up.

 

[existentialist]

Christ. I feel a bit sick reading the news this morning.

I'm rather dreading the morning I wake up to discover one of various stratospherically awful atrocities have been committed - the assassination of Zelenskiy, the flattening of Kyiv, etc.

And that's after what we've already seen - a million-plus refugees, the bombing of clearly residential areas, the firefight in a nuclear power station...

OTOH, waking up to discover that Putin and his coterie had been fragged would be, while alarming, at least some hope of this ending sooner.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Apologies if posted, I checked a few pages back and didn't see it.

Thanks for posting that, good thread. although somewhat worrying, I think he has it bang on the nail.

 

[Flavour]

Yeah this is terrifying even if this time the fires been put out. It's all fine until suddenly its not

 

[bimble]

why would you order yr troops to shoot a load of rockets at a nuclear power plant? I mean even within the mindset where 'must win war' is your single guiding principle does it actually become necessary / a good idea to do that ?

 

[platinumsage]

why would you order yr troops to shoot a load of rockets at a nuclear power plant? I mean even within the mindset where 'must win war' is your single guiding principle does it actually become necessary / a good idea to do that ?

You want to seize control of it, it is a power plant after all, and the armed defenders are located in a building on the site. So you attack that building and not the reactor buildings. It's not really total lunacy.

 

[bimble]

You want to seize control of it, it is a power plant after all, and the armed defenders are located in a building on the site. So you attack that building and not the reactor buildings. It's not really total lunacy.

nope still don't get it, unless they've brought their own nuclear power plant operators with them to take over? But i am new to this whole armchair general thing.

 

[bimble]

oh. this is new. A couple of days ago it was only Modi supporter accounts doing this hashtag.

 

[existentialist]

why would you order yr troops to shoot a load of rockets at a nuclear power plant? I mean even within the mindset where 'must win war' is your single guiding principle does it actually become necessary / a good idea to do that ?

You don't actually order them to fire at a nuclear power plant. You say "go and get those neonazi scum, wherever they are hiding. Root them out, destroy them all."

And then they encounter a group of Ukrainians defending a nuclear power station, and they remember their orders, and off they go. The Russian military - well, most militaries, but the Russians in particular - doesn't go in much for encouraging officers to question their orders, and it's quite likely that someone brought up in a place like Russia hasn't really had an opportunity to learn what the consequences of fucking up a nuclear reactor are...

 

[zahir]

This doesn't sound entirely reassuring.

World ‘narrowly averted a nuclear catastrophe’, says US envoy to UN after Russia attack on Ukraine atomic plant - as it happened

Linda Thomas-Greenfield tells emergency security council meeting Russia actions were ‘reckless’; Jens Stoltenberg warns of ‘more death, more suffering and more destruction’

www.theguardian.com

An update written at 7.30am on the State Inspectorate for Nuclear Regulation of Ukraine’s Facebook page reads:

The Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant is captured by the military forces of the Russian Federation.”

However, the inspectorate says employees are continuing to work on the premises, while operational personnel control the safe condition of the power units.

According to the inspectorate units two and three have been disconnected from the network and and nuclear installations are being cooled down

“Changes in the radiation state for the current time have not been recorded,” the update adds.

However the loss of cooling nuclear fuel will lead to “significant radioactive emissions into the environment” and such an event “may outgrow all previous NPP accidents, including the Chernobyl NPP and Fukusima-Daichi NPP” the authority says, adding that a damage to a reservoir of processed nuclear fuel as a result of the shelling will also lead to radioactive discharge.

eta: it now looks like this report includes some unjustified alarmism.

 

[bimble]

That law about going to prison for disseminating 'fake news' about the war has just been passed, unanimously, no debate. It is also now a felony to 'discredit' the Russian army.

 

[TopCat]

That law about going to prison for disseminating 'fake news' about the war has just been passed, unanimously, no debate. It is also now a felony to 'discredit' the Russian army.

I'm sure Liz Truss and Priti Patel are trying to cook up similar legislation here. We already have the acts about supporting terror or possessing materials likely to be useful. Secret trials, secret verdicts, we are really effective at this shit.

 

[kabbes]

Third episode. I recommend this even if it is 20 minutes.

Thanks for that. He lays out very clearly why (as, to be fair, elbows has also been saying) the Russians are pretty much perfectly meeting their own operational timetable and why, despite strong resistance, it still looks pretty hopeless for Ukraine.

 

[kabbes]

Apologies if posted, I checked a few pages back and didn't see it.

I understand the impulse and the rage but I don’t buy it as sensible policy. The fact is that there is a red line between countries in the strategic military alliance of NATO and those who are not. Countries get invaded all the time, such as Djibouti being invited by Eritrea in 2008, and NATO don’t go charging off to defend them (the French provided logistical, supply and medical assistance but that was it). NATO’s reason for directly participating in combat can only be defined by their charter, otherwise all bets are off. They say to Russia, “attack one of us and we will respond in kind, but leave us alone and we will leave you alone”. You can’t break that without shattering all trust that you will do what you say.

 

[discokermit]

nope still don't get it, unless they've brought their own nuclear power plant operators with them to take over? But i am new to this whole armchair general thing.

shutting down ukraines electrical supply.

 

[discokermit]

if anyone is tempted to listen to kasparov i suggest they look back through his history. all he is interested in is self promotion.

 

[ohmyliver]

You don't really 'switch off' a nuclear reactor. Everything dangerous is still sitting there.

But you do switch off a cctv feed. At the time of posting that, the live feed had been replaced by a loop of footage.

Which is what I meant. Should have been clearer

 

[zahir]

IAEA press conference starting in an hours time.

 

[RD2003]

Anyway, what we know so far: Putin can't possibly win; he underestimated both the resistance and the terrain etc and will get bogged down by an insurgency for years and years. His days are clearly numbered.

At the same time, he can't possibly be stopped and will not be satisfied with just Ukraine but will march on to the Baltic states and even Poland and Hungary. Possibly Belgium too. He is an invincible Bond baddie.

 

[bimble]

.. You can’t break that without shattering all trust that you will do what you say.

How much does that in itself matter when you are in a situation where last week Putin was saying don't be ridiculous i'm not going to invade Ukraine? Not disagreeing with you just wonder about the whole idea that the norms and rules will necessarily hold.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Anyway, what we know so far: Putin can't possibly win; he underestimated both the resistance and the terrain etc and will get bogged down by an insurgency for years and years. His days are clearly numbered.

At the same time, he can't possibly be stopped and will not be satisfied with just Ukraine but will march on to the Baltic states and even Poland and Hungary. Possibly Belgium too.

Oh do fuck off you tedious twat. Try adding something useful instead of constantly shitting up the place.

 

[RD2003]

if anyone is tempted to listen to kasparov i suggest they look back through his history. all he is interested in is self promotion.

Some nice photos around of Kasparov with 'Eddie' Limonov, the late leader of the National Bolsheviks, from the time they were partners in an opposition alliance.