Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[LDC]

I think the whole fascism/de-Nazification discussion needs a separate thread tbh. And people are just reposting links, esp. Twitter with no comment and that have been posted a few times already.

 

[Spymaster]

...and let's all pause a moment to reflect on the hostile crowds heckling the fucking RNLI for saving drowning refugees.

That turned out to be bollocks (one man), as were the reports of fish being dumped in the water to attract seagulls to stop lifeboats launching.

This shit isn't some unique "Slavic barbarity".

Maybe not unique but it's certainly more prevalent in Eastern Europe than it is in the west and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

It absolutely should be called out.

 

[ffsear]

*Walter Bloomberg @DeItaone
2m


KREMLIN SAYS THESE ARE REAL NEO-NAZIS WHO STARTED KILLING THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN 2014 KREMLIN SAYS SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUNISH THEM FOR THESE CRIMES KREMLIN SAYS RUSSIA HAS NO CLAIMS ON OTHER COUNTRIES' BORDERS.


Playing the Nazi card to justify his point. Putins gone full Unrban75

 

[frogwoman]

In Russia the stuff on Macron being gay is also talked about in popular talk shows. No idea about Ukraine but in Russia the media and Putin himself stoke that stuff all the time.

 

[ska invita]

What is Zelenskyy's relationship with the far right/fash? I've tried to read up about it put not found a trustworthy source

 

[Artaxerxes]

*Walter Bloomberg @DeItaone
2m


KREMLIN SAYS THESE ARE REAL NEO-NAZIS WHO STARTED KILLING THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN 2014 KREMLIN SAYS SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUNISH THEM FOR THESE CRIMES KREMLIN SAYS RUSSIA HAS NO CLAIMS ON OTHER COUNTRIES' BORDERS.


Playing the Nazi card to justify his point. Putins gone full Unrban75

Putins managed to blow up a holocaust memorial and an archive detailing Nazi atrocities.

I assume denazification can only mean "destroying evidence" at this point.

What is Zelenskyy's relationship with the far right/fash? I've tried to read up about it put not found a trustworthy source

He's Jewish. He's not going to be doing tea and scones.

 

[Pickman's model]

*Walter Bloomberg @DeItaone
2m


KREMLIN SAYS THESE ARE REAL NEO-NAZIS WHO STARTED KILLING THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN 2014 KREMLIN SAYS SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUNISH THEM FOR THESE CRIMES KREMLIN SAYS RUSSIA HAS NO CLAIMS ON OTHER COUNTRIES' BORDERS.


Playing the Nazi card to justify his point. Putins gone full Unrban75

Everyone knows Russia has no claims on other countries' borders. Just on what is within them.

 

[Diamond]

Can absolutely believe there is a lot of racism in Ukraine (much of it also appears to be led by Poland - claims of Ukrainian guards saying "no Poland won't take you get off the train" and Polish border guards saying no blacks no asians). Call it out as much as you can.

Doesn't mean there isn't plenty sloshing about in the Russian army because there absolutely is.

Apart from a few entrepots, pretty much everywhere in the world that does not bear down upon racism features it in abundance. It is the default state of the affairs, IME. Slight sense of moral superiority in all of this criticism of the Easterners that I don't think is very attractive.

 

[IC3D]

It's relevant in the same way that Hamas's charter and policies are relevant to a discussion about Gaza I'd say, ie sure a factor in the conflict but not as much so as massive bombs raining from the sky. we need to be really careful how we talk about this.

Speak for yourself and the analogy is stretched here. We could move discussion to a specific thread but I'm not going to be quiet about it when it's relevent.

 

[frogwoman]

Jfc, how many times have people heard Bibi Netanyahu going off on one during a bombing of Gaza about how Hamas wants to wipe out the worlds Jews and what various policies say etc.

 

[chilango]

It absolutely should be called out.

Totally agree on this point at least.

 

[dilute micro]

I think you're labouring under the delusion Russia is a democracy, or at least that uniquely in Russia the Russian government is a democracy. The United States already produces and indeed supplies oil.

No the US itself bought over 200 million barrels of Russian oil last year after having shut down the Keystone XL. Before that the US was a net exporter. Supplying oil to Europe and halting Russian oil would crush Russia.

 

[A380]

Just for Pickman's model from a rainy car park..

 

[chilango]

I think the whole fascism/de-Nazification discussion needs a separate thread tbh. And people are just reposting links, esp. Twitter with no comment and that have been posted a few times already.

Done.

 

[Pickman's model]

No the US itself bought over 200 million barrels of Russian oil last year after having shut down the Keystone XL. Before that the US was a net exporter. Supplying oil to Europe and halting Russian oil would crush Russia.

Being a net importer doesn't mean not exporting oil. The quality and uses of oil varies from place to place and so russian oil may be used for some things that say Texan oil isn't - and in any event while what you say might be true in time about tanking Russia's economy that might be months or years hence and so not much good as far as Kiev or Kharkiv go.

 

[brogdale]

Just for Pickman's model from a rainy car park..

STOP POSTING TWEETS!!!

Mods...burn the tweet monger

 

[IC3D]

Jfc, how many times have people heard Bibi Netanyahu going off on one during a bombing of Gaza about how Hamas wants to wipe out the worlds Jews and what various policies say etc.

Ive heard Hamas supporters say just that.

 

[andysays]

*Walter Bloomberg @DeItaone
2m


KREMLIN SAYS THESE ARE REAL NEO-NAZIS WHO STARTED KILLING THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN 2014 KREMLIN SAYS SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUNISH THEM FOR THESE CRIMES KREMLIN SAYS RUSSIA HAS NO CLAIMS ON OTHER COUNTRIES' BORDERS.


Playing the Nazi card to justify his point. Putins gone full Unrban75

No one here is playing the Nazi card to support Putin.

I didn't intend my post above to suggest that Ukranians (or Slavs or Eastern Europeans or anyone else) are all Nazis, or even that the sort of things that Nigerian student talks about couldn't happen in Western Europe, including Britain, if an invasion happened "here".

It really should be possible to recognise that there are acts driven by racism going on without being accused of labelling all Ukrainians etc as racist.

 

[frogwoman]

Ive heard Hamas supporters say just that.

Sure. Does it justify Israel's policies tho, and are said policies going to help the situation? Probably not in both instances.

 

[Diamond]

There's been a re-up on the Bayraktars from Turkey. Will be fascinating to see whether these make another big impact.



It looks like they only cost $1-2m, which seems incredibly cheap for weaponry that effective. I wonder if we're seeing a shift in the balance of military power here. Even quite poor countries should be able to field a few of these systems to great effect.

This is the sort of thing that Cummings and a lot of his lot are very interested in, I think.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's been a re-up on the Bayraktars from Turkey. Will be fascinating to see whether these make another big impact.



It looks like they only cost $1-2m, which seems incredibly cheap for weaponry that effective. I wonder if we're seeing a shift in the balance of military power here. Even quite poor countries should be able to field a few of these systems to great effect.

This is the sort of thing that Cummings and a lot of his lot are very interested in, I think.

For comparison tomahawk cruise missiles cost in the region of a million dollars each

 

[dilute micro]

Being a net importer doesn't mean not exporting oil. The quality and uses of oil varies from place to place and so russian oil may be used for some things that say Texan oil isn't - and in any event while what you say might be true in time about tanking Russia's economy that might be months or years hence and so not much good as far as Kiev or Kharkiv go.

Yeah, it's just that Russia is supplying its low grade power plant oil to Europe and continues to benefit from it. The US could reactivate the Keystone and become the alternative source in order to sanction Russia in a serious way. But meanwhile, Putin is bound to believe he can weather the storm with the sanctions that have been done to this point. Take away his oil and he can't fund his army and also the entirety of Russia will be in a full blown panic along with the sanctions already in place. How democratic are coups anyway? The best hope at this point would be a coup. The longer this goes on, the greater the chance that there's an incident with warplanes or navies and that could elevate this to a world war. I know you know that but I think we should do whatever we can to prevent it.

 

[dilute micro]

I'm a internet expert. I sat out on the covid stuff.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Ive heard Hamas supporters say just that.

Yep, that's why there are neo-nazi supporters of Hamas, aswell as Hezbollah.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, it's just that Russia is supplying its low grade power plant oil to Europe and continues to benefit from it. The US could reactivate the Keystone and become the alternative source in order to sanction Russia in a serious way. But meanwhile, Putin is bound to believe he can weather the storm with the sanctions that have been done to this point. Take away his oil and he can't fund his army and also the entirety of Russia will be in a full blown panic along with the sanctions already in place. How democratic are coups anyway? The best hope at this point would be a coup. The longer this goes on, the greater the chance that there's an incident with warplanes or navies and that could elevate this to a world war. I know you know that but I think we should do whatever we can to prevent it.

The best hope would be a coup. Right. Be careful what you wish for lest people who want to go in harder seize power.

 

[existentialist]

Spy is a much greater man than Vladimir Putin

Damning with faint praise...

 

[Smangus]

A sad reminder of the cost of war and a view from the Russian side, terrible all round.

‘Just a sea of tears’: the group helping anxious mothers of Russian soldiers

 

[bluescreen]

The best hope would be a coup. Right. Be careful what you wish for lest people who want to go in harder seize power.

So, how popular is Russian irredentism among those likely to succeed Putin?

 

[ska invita]

To save anyone else the work:

irredentism: a policy of advocating the restoration to a country of any territory formerly belonging to it.

 

[JimW]

Saw a link on that Meduza site that Putin's trustworthiness ratings have seen a ten point bump up to seventy percent since war started.