Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[frogwoman]

100% chance.

Any danger that Putin going on about "fascists" will cast the actual fascists in a 'good light' for your average Ukrainian resisting the invasion and thus strengthen them?

 

[discokermit]

Then put in in the right rumor thread ffs.

its probably as verified as ninety percent of this thread.

 

[killer b]

the multiple reports from black people trying to flee Ukraine would suggest that it’s an institutional issue that wouldn’t be tolerated elsewhere in Europe.

wouldn't it be tolerated? I guess hopefully we won't get to find out, but I'm not so sure.

 

[frogwoman]

War and invasion by a foreign power is of course famous for discouraging nationalist dickheads and leading to a lack of racism...

 

[A380]

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 312478

Could you provide a link pls

 

[frogwoman]

And yeah there was lots of casual antisemitism when I lived in Moldova (2009-2010). Most of it, but not all, done from genuine ignorance rather than hatred.

I didn't experience that in Russia - the opposite actually - but black students had a very difficult time, not from other students on the whole but from university authorities. I'd say that casual racism is pretty normal there unfortunately, no idea what Ukraine is like but in Russia its quite common to see 'Russians only' or 'slavs only' when trying to rent an apartment.

 

[chilango]

...leaving us sat on the sidelines negotiating a fine balance between calling out racist/fascist elements without echoing and spreading Putin's "denazification" bollocks.

 

[RD2003]

Yes. E.g. when I was flat-hunting in St. Petersburg I met an obvioulsy aspirational western-oriented couple . . . the human barbie doll who was the wife in this relationship said to me "how can you go to Africa? aren't they all cannibals?"

Another nice one from my then girlfriend: 'You know the Jews have their own plan for the world...' She demonstrated against the '91 coup and voted for Yeltsin and 'westernisation', and had several Jewish friends and colleagues.

 

[discokermit]

heres a load of racism from the western media,

twitter thread,

 

[frogwoman]

...leaving us sat on the sidelines negotiating a fine balance between calling out racist/fascist elements without echoing and spreading Putin's "denazification" bollocks.

I don't think there's much any of us can do from here, all this is gonna happen without us. One thing for sure though, Putin is definitely not some anti fash denazification hero

 

[chilango]

...and let's all pause a moment to reflect on the hostile crowds heckling the fucking RNLI for saving drowning refugees.

This shit isn't some unique "Slavic barbarity".

 

[frogwoman]

Lol I was having a conversation with a Russian mate about a documentary I'd seen about Jews in China and her response was to stretch the corners of her eyes and say 'oh wow! Do they have eyes like this?' I was a bit taken aback

An alarming number of Russians are also convinced that having a wife who is older than him means Macron is gay. I had a very uncomfortable dinner where that was the main topic of conversation.

 

[A380]

Could you provide a link pls

It’s on the Twiters and I thought we weren’t posting twit links.

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s on the Twiters and I thought we weren’t posting twit links.

Maybe then indicate you don't actually know the source of the image

 

[andysays]

heres a load of racism from the western media,

twitter thread,

At first glance, that appears to be the BBC reporting a racist comment from the Ukranian Deputy Chief Prosecutor, rather than actual racism from the media itself.

I'm not denying that examples of such racism may exist, but that doesn't appear to be one.

 

[frogwoman]

...and let's all pause a moment to reflect on the hostile crowds heckling the fucking RNLI for saving drowning refugees.

This shit isn't some unique "Slavic barbarity".

Yeahp I think that we need to be really careful in using it to make a point about Ukrainian society. I met some disgustingly racist (against Moldovans) US expats when I was in Odessa too.

 

[IC3D]

Its not just casual rasism bad as that is. In Ukraine they have a fascist battalion in the army. Senior political figures who were in violent nazi groups including the head of police. Then there's the national holiday where they celebrate kicking out the Soviets with the help of the actual Nazis.

 

[frogwoman]

There was one scumbag who was boasting about being a national guard in hurricane Katrina and wanting to leave people drown ffs. They also boasted about never having paid a penny of tax in Ukraine and started a business without registering it.

 

[frogwoman]

Its not just casual rasism bad as that is. In Ukraine they have an actual fascist battalion in the army. Senior political figures who were in violent nazi groups including the head of police. Then there's the national holiday where they celebrate kicking out the Soviets with the help of the actual Nazis.

Loads of actual fascists assisting the Russian army and the 'special operation in Donbass'.

 

[RD2003]

...and let's all pause a moment to reflect on the hostile crowds heckling the fucking RNLI for saving drowning refugees.

This shit isn't some unique "Slavic barbarity".

Not sure anybody has said it is.

The people I'm talking about were far from barbaric.

 

[dilute micro]

To repeat - there is no guarantee the next man in would be more pacific, it's really stupid to think that'd be the case.

How many people in the Russian gov want to invade, get their country sanctioned increasingly, the cost of everything going through the roof, and to continue farther down the road of diplomatic suicide? And Russia hasn't even seen the worst of sanctions. If everyone stops buying their energy that shuts them down completely. The US can pull their life support if it choses by producing and supplying oil. That could be a reality if Putin makes invasions a habit.

 

[cupid_stunt]

...and let's all pause a moment to reflect on the hostile crowds heckling the fucking RNLI for saving drowning refugees.

This shit isn't some unique "Slavic barbarity".

TBF that was Farage and some of his knuckle dragging followers, the reaction was a massive increase in donations to the RNLI , by a whopping 3000%, including the The Flying Farage GoFundMe page that raised almost £140k.

Donations to RNLI rise 3,000% after Farage’s migrant criticism

UK lifeboat charity raises £200,000 in single day after CEO hits out at Nigel Farage’s ‘taxi service’ claim

www.theguardian.com

 

[IC3D]

Loads of actual fascist battalions assisting the Russian army and the 'special operation in Donbass'.

Doesnt mean we should not discuss Ukrainian fascism. Its somewhat relevent.

 

[chilango]

TBF that was Farage and some of his knuckle dragging followers, the reaction was a massive increase in donations to the RNLI , by a whopping 3000%, including the The Flying Farage GoFundMe page that raised almost £140k.

Donations to RNLI rise 3,000% after Farage’s migrant criticism

UK lifeboat charity raises £200,000 in single day after CEO hits out at Nigel Farage’s ‘taxi service’ claim

www.theguardian.com

Sure.

But if you were, say, Ukrainian and you saw that clip/news being shared around but were not aware of the later reaction?

All I'm saying is we should all exercise a little caution and self-reflection when discussing this stuff.

 

[brogdale]

Doesnt mean we should not discuss Ukrainian fascism. Its somewhat relevent.

Especially when it's inconvenient to our media's present narrative.

 

[A380]

Maybe then indicate you don't actually know the source of the image

No it shows I’m late for an appointment and didn’t repost a tweet.

 

[Pickman's model]

How many people in the Russian gov want to invade, get their country sanctioned increasingly, the cost of everything going through the roof, and to continue farther down the road of diplomatic suicide? And Russia hasn't even seen the worst of sanctions. If everyone stops buying their energy that shuts them down completely. The US can pull their life support if it choses by producing and supplying oil. That could be a reality if Putin makes invasions a habit.

I think you're labouring under the delusion Russia is a democracy, or at least that uniquely in Russia the Russian government is a democracy. The United States already produces and indeed supplies oil.

 

[frogwoman]

It's relevant in the same way that Hamas's charter and policies are relevant to a discussion about Gaza I'd say, ie sure a factor in the conflict but not as much so as massive bombs raining from the sky. we need to be really careful how we talk about this.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Can absolutely believe there is a lot of racism in Ukraine (much of it also appears to be led by Poland - claims of Ukrainian guards saying "no Poland won't take you get off the train" and Polish border guards saying no blacks no asians). Call it out as much as you can.

Doesn't mean there isn't plenty sloshing about in the Russian army because there absolutely is.