Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[ID47]

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It may be there but I can't see it

What?! I see it fine with Linux, Chrome browser and Ghostery blocker. Could be blocking you if you are using a VPN or similar, some sites do and it is the WEF after all.

39th Step gave this link: Ukraine’s critical minerals: A strategic asset for global supply chains Scroll to the bottom and select 'link 2'.

 

[Ax^]

If you want me to watch the video, which appears to have nothing to do with the war in Ukraine, you'll have to explain its relevance and summarise its contents like it says in the boards' terms and rules

go read the title of the video and the. go play in traffic picks

 

[Elpenor]

go read the title of the video and the. go play in traffic picks

Great standard of debate on urban as always

 

[Ax^]

Great standard of debate on urban as always

lovely commentary elpenor but we both know their bugger all point debating with pickman.. jesus the worse thing you can do is validate him by engaging with his nonsense.. had no interest in be badgered all afternoon for a grammeratical error so best to be firm but keep it short and sweet


he find someone else to harang all afternoon if you leave him to his own device's

 

[The39thStep]

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It may be there but I can't see it

https://archive.ph/MR9mx

I don't think the fourth point in Zelensky's plan should come as a surprise. Ukraine has been auctioning off its mineral rights for some time ( there is actually a site for applications) and the EU signed up in 2021 for a shared agreement on rights. In most cases its a model where the investment comes from other states and Ukraine ends up with 12-15% of profits.

About half or slightly less of these mineral deposits are in the occupied areas; however, huge investment would be needed to extract them. After domestic use, Russia would then have to find export customers. This export market would of course be restricted or expanded depending on post war sanctions .I don't think the minerals are why Russia invaded but its a potentially profitable side benefit. I read somewhere that if the war has cost Russia a trillion, the value of the minerals has been estimated at 12 times that.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Do you think its possible for the Ukrainian army to expel the Russians from the annexed territories? Your post suggests that has to happen to save those living in those territories. Its not going to happen. So now what?

Perhaps worth remembering that Crimea has been under direct Russian control for a decade and it wasn't that long ago that the whole of Ukraine was run by a pro Russian president.
That is the reality of the situation. All we can do here is understand what is happening, understand why it has got to this, and agitate at our own state level for it not to happen again. That goes well beyond saying Putin is bad and I hope he has cancer.

If it was possible for Russia to invade and take over those territories then it’s totally possible for them to get kicked out again. Why is military action only possible for one side?

The reality of the situation is that we abandoned Ukraine in the past and it didn’t appease or stop Putin.

 

[ID47]

View attachment 447253

It may be there but I can't see it

Just checked and a VPN does indeed block it, used free Proton VPN Tokyo server.

 

[Pickman's model]

lovely commentary elpenor but we both know their bugger all point debating with pickman.. jesus the worse thing you can do is validate him by engaging with his nonsense.. had no interest in be badgered all afternoon for a grammeratical error so best to be firm but keep it short and sweet


he find someone else to harang all afternoon if you leave him to his own device's

the simple fact of the matter is ukraine is going to be a vassal state, whether it is russia's or the west's / corporations. i haven't taken you to task for your grammar (or spelling) on this thread as you make out, so don't fret about me starting now. it's utterly dishonest of you to suggest i've acted like that to you. but then honesty's definitely not your strong suit.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So some cunt's gonna take a hefty cut of the country's resources, and the choice is either this:

Significant human rights issues in the occupied areas included credible reports of: arbitrary or unlawful killings; enforced disappearances; torture and cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by Russia’s forces or Russia-led proxies; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions and transfer of prisoners to Russia; unjust detention; serious problems with the independence of the occupation’s “judiciary”; political prisoners or detainees; unjust interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict, including attacks on civilian infrastructure and cities, resulting in widespread civilian death, enforced disappearances or abductions, forcible transfers of civilian populations, torture, physical abuses, and conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjust arrests or prosecutions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive laws on the organization, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organizations; severe restrictions of religious freedom; restrictions on freedom of movement; inability of citizens to freely change their government peacefully through free and fair elections; forced participation in sham “elections” organized by Russia in violation of international law; serious and unreasonable restrictions on political participation; serious acts of corruption; serious restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; extensive gender-based violence, including rape; crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting members of national/racial/ethnic minority groups or Indigenous persons, including Crimean Tatars and ethnic Ukrainians; trafficking in persons, including forced labor; crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or intersex persons; and prohibiting independent trade unions or significant or systematic restrictions on workers’ freedom of association.

or all the boring crap offered by The Evil West.

Tough choices, for sure.

 

[Pickman's model]

So some cunt's gonna take a hefty cut of the country's resources, and the choice is either this:




or all the boring crap offered by The Evil West.

Tough choices, for sure.

however this ends up moves towards ukraine becoming a western vassal state predate the war - the 2020 land reform law, for example. as a 2023 report makes clear, more than a quarter of the country's agricultural land is now controlled by oligarchs, corrupt individuals, and large agribusinesses. and financial support for ukraine has been tied to economic 'liberalisation'. this may be boring crap to you, but it is unhappily interesting to the population of ukraine. this isn't of course to say that life under russian rule would be happy - far from it, as yossarian outlines. the issue of the war is as yet in doubt, and imo both the russian conquest of all of ukraine and the ukrainian reconquest of all its territory are both far less likely than some sort of compromise end to the war in which parts of the country are ceded to russia - probably the land to the east of the dnipro. it's possible that at a cessation of hostilities that some russian demands, eg ukraine to forget about being a member of nato or the eu, are agreed. but the domination of a rump ukraine shorn of its eastern provinces and crimea by western interests seems certain: and these interests are at least as antagonistic to those of the people of ukraine as moscow's are. so win, lose or draw v russia, the country has, i believe, been conquered by forces to whom ukrainian concerns will run a poor second to profit.

 

[The39thStep]

Several media outlets including the Kiev Indpendent ( below) reported that Zelensky now seems to have backed down from his we join NATO or we build nuclear weapons comments made earlier.

Zelensky says he told Trump that either Ukraine will join NATO or pursue nuclear weapons

"Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, which will serve as protection, or it must be part of some kind of alliance. Apart from NATO, we do not know of such an effective alliance," President Volodymyr Zelensky said that he had told Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.

kyivindependent.com

Whether it was simply bad phasing or language difficulties or a threat is up for grabs however there is a somewhat sensational claim in Bild.

 

[teuchter]

the domination of a rump ukraine shorn of its eastern provinces and crimea by western interests seems certain: and these interests are at least as antagonistic to those of the people of ukraine as moscow's are

Carefully worded, I note, to focus on the "interests" of potential dominators rather than their likely actions.

 

[Pickman's model]

Carefully worded, I note, to focus on the "interests" of potential dominators rather than their likely actions.

i'm sure you feel you're making a really good point. you're not.

 

[Elpenor]

Several media outlets including the Kiev Indpendent ( below) reported that Zelensky now seems to have backed down from his we join NATO or we build nuclear weapons comments made earlier.

Zelensky says he told Trump that either Ukraine will join NATO or pursue nuclear weapons

"Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, which will serve as protection, or it must be part of some kind of alliance. Apart from NATO, we do not know of such an effective alliance," President Volodymyr Zelensky said that he had told Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump.

kyivindependent.com

Whether it was simply bad phasing or language difficulties or a threat is up for grabs however there is a somewhat sensational claim in Bild.


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It really will be NATOs fault then if we have a nuclear war

 

[editor]

It really will be NATOs fault then if we have a nuclear war

I thought it was Putin who'd been constantly threatening to use nuclear weapons against the country he illegally invaded and committed mass crimes against humanity on their population.

Or is that NATO's fault?

 

[bcuster]

NATO should not want Ukraine to join. How does it benefit US or UK?

 

[sleaterkinney]

It's worth noting that Ukraine did have nukes but gave them up with a treaty including Russia, UK and US respecting their borders and sovereignty.

 

[Elpenor]

I thought it was Putin who'd been constantly threatening to use nuclear weapons against the country he illegally invaded and committed mass crimes against humanity on their population.

Or is that NATO's fault?

I will assume you haven’t read 39th steps post which links to an article that says “if we can’t join NATO we will have to regain our nuclear deterrent”

 

[Pickman's model]

NATO should not want Ukraine to join. How does it benefit US or UK?

to be fair it's not solely british and american interests which run nato

 

[Pickman's model]

I will assume you haven’t read 39th steps post which links to an article that says “if we can’t join NATO we will have to regain our nuclear deterrent”

probably on ignore.

 

[Ax^]

I will assume you haven’t read 39th steps post which links to an article that says “if we can’t join NATO we will have to regain our nuclear deterrent”

would they need a nuclear deterrent if not for Russia aggression

no wait that is NATO fault as well

the bastard's

 

[emanymton]

I will assume you haven’t read 39th steps post which links to an article that says “if we can’t join NATO we will have to regain our nuclear deterrent”

I don't really see how that addresses editors point.

But anyway, the argument seems to be that if NATO lets Ukraine join and there is a nuclear way that's NATO's fault for letting them join. If NATO doesn't let Ukraine join and there is a nuclear war that's NATO's for not letting them join?

It's nonsense anyway, Ukraine isn't going to develop there own nuclear wepons while the war is ongoing.

 

[bcuster]

I don't really see how that addresses editors point.

But anyway, the argument seems to be that if NATO lets Ukraine join and there is a nuclear way that's NATO's fault for letting them join. If NATO doesn't let Ukraine join and there is a nuclear war that's NATO's for not letting them join?

It's nonsense anyway, Ukraine isn't going to develop there own nuclear wepons while the war is ongoing.

This is true. The bloody, meat-grinding conventional war stalemate will continue. This is good for neo-con arm sales. Nuclear warfare is not good for business

 

[TopCat]

I think Zelensky is showing desperation rather than considering establishing strategic deterrence with nuclear weapons.

 

[TopCat]

North Korea deploys troops to fight with Russia: Seoul

The first 1,500 troops arrive in Russia ahead of going to Ukraine, South Korea's spy agency has said.

www.bbc.co.uk

No idea if this is credible

 

[Skinny Ethel]

I find the credible thing similar to your postings on this thread.

 

[editor]

As if having a near-fascist state invading a democratic country wasn't bad enough, it seems that they're now enlisting the help of a totalitarian one.

 

[TopCat]

I find the credible thing similar to your postings on this thread.

Your insights on the topic continue to bore.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

As if having a near-fascist state invading a democratic country wasn't bad enough, it seems that they're now enlisting the help of a totalitarian one.

Nah, it's Zelenzky who's desperate, Putin's getting a couple of thousand emancipated souls who don't speak the language their new commanders do cos he's the steamroller against the fash, do keep up ed.

 

[Ax^]

North Korea deploys troops to fight with Russia: Seoul

The first 1,500 troops arrive in Russia ahead of going to Ukraine, South Korea's spy agency has said.

www.bbc.co.uk

No idea if this is credible

bit of a step down from Russian

nearing to bring troops from North Korea to make up the numbers

not the flex Russia thinks it is