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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

I think people are stressed.
This whole thing is fucking scary.
People poking at others and giving them aggro or grief isnt helping.
Some of us are barely hanging in there in life let alone trying to face an increasingly more difficult future.
To be fair, given the stakes and given that some people have got family on either side of this, I think the discussion on here has been pretty, gasp... mature! Well, once we got past the 'some of you anarchists and communists will be cheering Putin on' nonsense.
 
I have an awful feeling that Putin is not beyond dropping a nuclear bomb in Ukraine...

😟
He's not going to nuke anyone. If he even starts to fire one up him and his country will be vaporised. That's what makes him talking about putting them on high alert even more dangerous than the prospect of him actually dropping one.
 
This is a good piece, including a round-up of extra measures that have been put in place over the weekend, no wonder Putin is feeling under ever increasing pressure.

EU officials have noted that the leadership of Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, and particularly his intervention by video at the European council on the Thursday night has been a key driver in a change in approach towards the crisis by the 27 member states and their leaders.

In his appeal for aid during the leaders’ late night summit in Brussels, Zelenskiy had told the EU’s heads of state and government that with Kyiv encircled it may be the last time they would see him.

An EU official said: “I think the intervention by president Zelenskiy will be part of history. It was very emotional, the leaders were deeply impacted, the silence in the room was impressive. A heavy atmosphere.”

They said: “it made the difference to create this dynamic that we see today with leaders approving the transfer of delivery of weapons, Swift being on the list, and my guess is that it will continue”.

“Rational positions”, where leaders looked at their own interests, are also being moved by public opinion, an EU official said.

The consequences are that:

  • Zelenskiy asked Charles Michel, president of the European council, for military equipment on Saturday and 18 member states have now made donations, according to an EU official.
  • Under the EU’s ‘European peace facility’ fund, the EU itself will now also fund the donation of “defensive weapons of a lethal nature” to Ukraine, under a proposal that will be put to member states. Those with an historically neutral status will be able to “constructively abstain” so that their financial contribution is spent on other projects.
  • Later today, a proposal on closing down the airspace above the EU for Russian air carriers and prohibiting landing in airports will be put to member states. Around 3/4 of member states have unilaterally done so, an EU official said. This had been resisted until now due to concerns that Russia would respond by closing down its air space to EU carriers.
  • The list of Russian banks that will be cut off from the Swift payments system is being coordinated by the European commission following a significant change of tack from the German government, an EU official said. The commission is seeking to have the move adopted by emergency procedure today.
  • There is no movement by the EU on so-called ‘correspondent banking’, where EU financial institutions act as an agent on behalf of Russian financial institutions. The US and the UK have prohibited all Russian banks from such arrangements. It would be a major step for the EU in killing its annual €80billion of trade with Russia. But the EU is acting to prevent the Russian central bank from converting its euro reserves into Russian roubles.
  • EU interior ministers will have a stock take on the capacity in Poland, Slovakia, Hungary to take in refugees from Ukraine. The EU official said the capacity is “quite huge”.
LINK
 
Liz Truss has reportedly given the green light to foreign fighters leaving from the UK. With the Tories prosecuting foreign fighters in recent years, (eg YPG Kurds, and possibly the war in Ukraine).
 
This is one of the reasons we need a forum so people looking for ways to help can find stuff like this on a dedicated thread rather than lost on other discussions

Yes. With that in mind, I have started this thread.

Please list quality resources and legit appeals like that above in there.
 
Liz Truss has reportedly given the green light to foreign fighters leaving from the UK. With the Tories prosecuting foreign fighters in recent years, (eg YPG Kurds, and possibly the war in Ukraine).

Yeh, I saw that this morning on the beeb. She repeated it about three times so cant really claim to have been misquoted down the track.
 
Really didn’t think I’d face the prospect of a nuke actually being using in anger in my lifetime.

Now, not so sure. Can’t help but feel Putin is going to end up with nothing else to lose.

Ah well.
Would hope that someone would take responsibility to kill him at that point, or before that point. He does appear to be playing all his cards very early. I may be wrong, but that suggests all is not going to plan.
 
If this guy is ‘nervous’ I take that as meaning it’s ok for me to be shit scared.


I grew up through the 70s and 80s when Threads was on telly and everyone from then says how real the threat felt. I've always thought that fear was a little overcooked. The Cuban missile crisis sounded more real scary, though I was lucky enough not to be born then.

This feels a bit more real to me. Because of how nutty and driven Putin is. Because right now it looks like there is no way for him to win this (and weak isn't in his make up).

Which doesn't mean he'll do it. But I think it's a more solid threat than I've ever lived under. And it's ok to be a bit shit scared.
 
A nuke attack by anybody anywhere is a signal for everybody everywhere to kiss their arses goodbye.
In the nanosecond I have before being vaporised, I will find no comfort thinking at least they are getting vaporised too.
The weapons exist and boys itch to play with their toys.
We used to march and demonstrate to ban the bomb, it’s miles too late now.
 
I grew up through the 70s and 80s when Threads was on telly and everyone from then says how real the threat felt. I've always thought that fear was a little overcooked. The Cuban missile crisis sounded more real scary, though I was lucky enough not to be born then.

This feels a bit more real to me. Because of how nutty and driven Putin is. Because right now it looks like there is no way for him to win this (and weak isn't in his make up).

Which doesn't mean he'll do it. But I think it's a more solid threat than I've ever lived under. And it's ok to be a bit shit scared.
It's no different to any other time, and although it's entirely reasonable to be scared, how you feel about it or how it's represented doesn't change the structural situation.

The world has been far closer to nuclear war than it is now, and most people weren't even aware until later. This particular rhetoric isn't even new, and whilst Putin might be a horrible bastard, 'nutty' doesn't have a solid basis either.

From 2015: Russia threatens Denmark with nuclear weapons
 
I grew up through the 70s and 80s when Threads was on telly and everyone from then says how real the threat felt. I've always thought that fear was a little overcooked. The Cuban missile crisis sounded more real scary, though I was lucky enough not to be born then.

This feels a bit more real to me. Because of how nutty and driven Putin is. Because right now it looks like there is no way for him to win this (and weak isn't in his make up).

Which doesn't mean he'll do it. But I think it's a more solid threat than I've ever lived under. And it's ok to be a bit shit scared.

In the mutually assured destruction era the actual use of nukes is not very likely, and so it is their ability to instil fear that is their greatest power. I try quite hard to diffuse those fears in my own mind, I cannot get rid of such fears and sometimes I like to dwell on them, but I also try to contain them so that they dont poison everything. I'll have to do so again now.

The fears were cynically made use of in the 1980s when I was growing up, although I never got round to seeing Threads in full my imagination was certainly captured by the animated version of when the wind blows.
 
I grew up through the 70s and 80s when Threads was on telly and everyone from then says how real the threat felt. I've always thought that fear was a little overcooked. The Cuban missile crisis sounded more real scary, though I was lucky enough not to be born then.

This feels a bit more real to me. Because of how nutty and driven Putin is. Because right now it looks like there is no way for him to win this (and weak isn't in his make up).

Which doesn't mean he'll do it. But I think it's a more solid threat than I've ever lived under. And it's ok to be a bit shit scared.

Yeah, it was the satirical When the Wind Blows that shit me up. As did a later 2005 doc I saw on Irish TV as happened to be in Dublin at the time, re atomic bombing of Japan.

This does feel different due to the seeming irrationality of Putin. Historical context to what has brought him to this aside, these recent actions do not seem simply nationalistic but rather more personal for him.
 
Talking about nukes in order to try to get an upper hand in the ‘peace talks’ announced at the same time seems a bit mad but maybe a comforting-ish explanation?

It might be if the 'consequence free' use of tactical nuclear weapons wasn't a longstanding feature of Soviet/Russian political, military, intelligence and diplomatic thought.

3 perhaps 4 generations of Soviet/Russian military officers, intelligence officers, diplomats, and politicians, going back well into the 70's genuinely believe that if they threaten the use of Russia's strategic nuclear weapons to wipe out the European and North American homelands of NATO, they would be able to use a limited number of tactical nukes on the battlefield without nuclear retaliation.

Putin is Soviet KGB, what do you think he believes?
 
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