Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[ska invita]

the attendees are a bit interesting. no russia, no china, no biden, no modi, brazil sending their ambassador and australia sending the minister for the national disability scheme because the prime minister is meeting li qiang of china.
i think this one will be a damp squib and the second one won't happen.

No USA either aside from token underling ( you did mention that I just noticed)

 

[ska invita]

The substantive pro-Ukraine position of most on this thread is driven by the desire not to see the Putin regime benefit from an imperialist land-grab,...

"Desire" is one thing, reality another. My list of antimilitarist desires is longer than my arm. Doesn't mean much when you look at the last twenty years of illegal global wars.

I was with an ex soldier friend last week (currently just about living on disability allowance as is the norm), we were taking about Ukraine and Russia, his feeling was the West should've gone in full force from the start, Western troops in, and called Putin's bluff. This at least is logical, even though I couldn't support that for fear of the fallout.

What we both agreed on though is the current situation is disastrous.

 

[The39thStep]

Looks like a good read. Does anybody in it argue that the end of the occupation was worse than the alternative?

Nope , its not a polemic and if you read it you might come to the conclusion that it's not a period of history that one can easily swap as an analogy for the situation in Ukraine . Its only a few bob on Kindle.

 

[spitfire]

Nope , its not a polemic and if you read it you might come to the conclusion that it's not a period of history that one can easily swap as an analogy for the situation in Ukraine . Its only a few bob on Kindle.

Just picked one up from Abebooks for £3.59, free shipping, thanks for the nudge.

 

[sleaterkinney]

It's the key demand, no NATO membership seems already in the bag - although a peace accord would be enforced by Western forces

No, they asked for more than they occupy, a puppet leadership etc.

 

[Rob Ray]

It's the key demand, no NATO membership seems already in the bag - although a peace accord would be enforced by Western forces

No it isn't. It's the preliminary demand incorporating declawing to enable the main meal. You know this, it's imperialism 101.

 

[The39thStep]

No it isn't. It's the preliminary demand incorporating declawing to enable the main meal. You know this, it's imperialism 101.

wasn't defanging a popular buzzword on this thread for a while?

 

[Smangus]

Russia: if you give up your nuclear weapons don't join NATO or the European union you can keep all your country and we will respect your borders.

Ukraine: OK we will do that.

Russia ( crosses border) : if you don't join NATO etc we will just keep Crimea and respect your borders.

Ukraine: You agreed and now you have broken the agreement!

Russia(invades again): if you let us keep what we have occupied already and promise not to ask for any of it back and promise to not join NATO etc. We will respect your borders.

Ukraine: ??

 

[sleaterkinney]

"Desire" is one thing, reality another. My list of antimilitarist desires is longer than my arm. Doesn't mean much when you look at the last twenty years of illegal global wars.

I was with an ex soldier friend last week (currently just about living on disability allowance as is the norm), we were taking about Ukraine and Russia, his feeling was the West should've gone in full force from the start, Western troops in, and called Putin's bluff. This at least is logical, even though I couldn't support that for fear of the fallout.

What we both agreed on though is the current situation is disastrous.

The start as when he annexed Crimea?

 

[nogojones]

Nope , its not a polemic and if you read it you might come to the conclusion that it's not a period of history that one can easily swap as an analogy for the situation in Ukraine . Its only a few bob on Kindle.

Free e-pubs galore on soulseek

 

[ska invita]

No it isn't. It's the preliminary demand incorporating declawing to enable the main meal. You know this, it's imperialism 101.

I dont understand what you are saying , can you elaborate?

 

[kebabking]

I dont understand what you are saying , can you elaborate?

Your neighbour breaks into your house. He stabs you, rapes your wife, steals your TV, and sets fire to your kitchen.

He says that he'll go away and promise not come back if you a) throw all your kitchen knives in the bin. b) take the locks off your front and back doors. c) cut the phone line so you can't call the Police.

You agree, because that can't go wrong at all, and you're the dumbest fuck ever to walk the earth.

HTH.

 

[TopCat]

I dont understand what you are saying , can you elaborate?

Drop your weapons to enable us to kill you more easily.

 

[The39thStep]

Your neighbour breaks into your house. He stabs you, rapes your wife, steals your TV, and sets fire to your kitchen.

He says that he'll go away and promise not come back if you a) throw all your kitchen knives in the bin. b) take the locks off your front and back doors. c) cut the phone line so you can't call the Police.

You agree, because that can't go wrong at all, and you're the dumbest fuck ever to walk the earth.

HTH.

Let me add this to the Urban75 list of house analogies for the Russian invasion

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

As an aside, I bet there's some US/UK/etc. assets in Russia earning their money atm.

www.urban75.net

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

He is still a master strategist :hmm: At 2D Snakes & Ladders not 4D Chess

www.urban75.net

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

My starting point was actually the book 'Collar the Lot' by Peter Gilman which I read some time ago and would recommend to you. Completely coincidentally, someone literally just shared this with me. Haven't listened to it yet but definitely will. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s37f3

www.urban75.net

 

[discokermit]

Let me add this to the Urban75 list of house analogies for the Russian invasion

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

As an aside, I bet there's some US/UK/etc. assets in Russia earning their money atm.

www.urban75.net

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

He is still a master strategist :hmm: At 2D Snakes & Ladders not 4D Chess

www.urban75.net

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

My starting point was actually the book 'Collar the Lot' by Peter Gilman which I read some time ago and would recommend to you. Completely coincidentally, someone literally just shared this with me. Haven't listened to it yet but definitely will. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s37f3

www.urban75.net

you take the piss but you wouldn't find it so funny if putin came round your house, raped your cat, shit in your dishwasher, licked your ice cream and called your nan a cunt, would you?

 

[Silas Loom]

you take the piss but you wouldn't find it so funny if putin came round your house, raped your cat, shit in your dishwasher, licked your ice cream and called your nan a cunt, would you?

Lol, rape. After Bucha.

 

[discokermit]

Lol, rape.

whether israel or ukraine, the favourite word of the propagandist.

 

[kebabking]

whether israel or ukraine, the favourite word of the propagandist.

The favourite denial of the ocean going cunt....

 

[The39thStep]

you take the piss but you wouldn't find it so funny if putin came round your house, raped your cat, shit in your dishwasher, licked your ice cream and called your nan a cunt, would you?

Harry Enfield sketch redux

 

[discokermit]

The favourite denial of the ocean going cunt....

content warning please. this has brought back when putin came on my boat, keelhauled my parrot and took me below deck to search for the golden rivet.

 

[The39thStep]

New York Times with what seems to be the most complete summary of the failed peace negotiations in 2022

https://archive.ph/NhlDs

 

[Ax^]

hmm seem like the same deal Putin's offering 2 years later

The Sticking Points That Kept Russia and Ukraine Apart

Documents from 2022 shed new light on what prevented Ukraine and Russia from ending the war — and what would complicate a future negotiation.

www.nytimes.com

 

[kebabking]

Good thread on the alleged 'close to agreement' peace talks from a Polish researcher and academic.



There was never a nascent deal...

 

[The39thStep]

hmm seem like the same deal Putin's offering 2 years later

The Sticking Points That Kept Russia and Ukraine Apart

Documents from 2022 shed new light on what prevented Ukraine and Russia from ending the war — and what would complicate a future negotiation.

www.nytimes.com

I think they've ratched up the demands a notch tbh.

 

[discokermit]

interesting sunday times article about financial costs,

Defence | UK

Authoritative defence news & analysis from The Times & The Sunday Times. Expert coverage of the UK military, defence policies & the latest developments.

www.thetimes.com

https://archive.ph/n7LSm

 

[discokermit]

russia overtakes u.s. as gas supplier to europe,

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://archive.ph/6uwbz

 

[sleaterkinney]

Your neighbour breaks into your house. He stabs you, rapes your wife, steals your TV, and sets fire to your kitchen.

He says that he'll go away and promise not come back if you a) throw all your kitchen knives in the bin. b) take the locks off your front and back doors. c) cut the phone line so you can't call the Police.

You agree, because that can't go wrong at all, and you're the dumbest fuck ever to walk the earth.

HTH.

After reading the docs:

If he comes out of the room you've given him and starts beating you up, you’ll need his consent to get someone to help you.

I can't believe BoJo didn't go for it.

 

[discokermit]

can we have a separate "what if ukraine was your house" thread?

 

[nogojones]

russia overtakes u.s. as gas supplier to europe,

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://archive.ph/6uwbz

Don't you just love the market. Even when you're bombing shit out of each other you can agree to uphold contracts and pipe the enemy's gas through your country.

 

[discokermit]

.