TopCat
Putin fanboy
Do many people in the UK celebrate Drake? Make badges to wear? Hold commemoration marches and rallies? Advocate slaving?
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
It's 50/50 between him and Kendrick
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there's a replica of the golden hind at bankside
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The only reason you're asking this is because of the numerous examples of Drake being widely celebrated that myself and others have already posted.
So you already know the answer don't you?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
It seems a niche thing at best.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
And this purported nazi-worship in Ukraine is widespread, I take it?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
You have seen the reports.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
A well informed article with some quotes from Ukrainian armed forces personnel about non existent defence lines. Russians having ‘tactical success’ in advance on Kharkiv, Ukraine says
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
They didn’t have well-built defences by the border because it was never safe to build them as always an active area, so construction units would come under attack. Same reason Russia had poor defences nearby when the Russian partisan units crossed the border last year. They should have stronger stuff a bit further back, but Russia tends to succeed with sheer weight of numbers and little aversion to losing people in the process.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Ukraine's Zelenskiy postpones foreign visits amid Russian offensive
Further to the news earlier that Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy had cancelled a visit to Spainand Portugal (see 08.54 BST), his press secretary has now said that all upcoming foreign visits scheduled for Zelenskiy have been postponed.“Volodymyr Zelenskiy has instructed that all international events scheduled for the coming days be postponed and new dates coordinated,” Sergii Nykyforov said on Facebook, according to Reuters.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Ukraine has pulled back troops near several villages in the north-eastern Kharkiv region, where Russian forces have been advancing and pounding settlements along the border since last week, Kyiv announced.
“In some areas, around Lukyantsi and Vovchansk, in response to enemy fire and assaults from ground troops, and to save the lives of our servicemen and avoid losses, our units manoeuvred and moved to more advantageous positions,” the Ukrainian military announced overnight between Tuesday and Wednesday, reports the Agence France-Presse (AFP) news agency.
“Donetsk and Kharkiv regions are where it is most difficult now,” Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in an address on Tuesday evening.
“In some areas, around Lukyantsi and Vovchansk, in response to enemy fire and assaults from ground troops, and to save the lives of our servicemen and avoid losses, our units manoeuvred and moved to more advantageous positions,” the Ukrainian military announced overnight between Tuesday and Wednesday, reports the Agence France-Presse (AFP) news agency.
“Donetsk and Kharkiv regions are where it is most difficult now,” Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in an address on Tuesday evening.
editor
hiraethified
All these innocent women and children dead. All these working class men, students, artists, musicians, doctors dead. All these homes, schools, nurseries, hospitals and offices destroyed. All these lives destroyed forever just so some power mad cunt and his lackies can move some some lines on the map and extend what is already the biggest country in the world.
And some people cheer on these war crime victories.
And some people cheer on these war crime victories.
ska invita
back on the other side
Good post here from Owen Jones ... I think this is step 1, theres a lot more to say that follows about geopolitics and imperialist competition and conflict avoidance and resolution, but before all that this is base level:
Russia's invasion of Ukraine strikes me as a major failure of war reporting.This was a brutal and unjustifiable invasion, and it's understandable that Western journalists would side with Ukraine on basic grounds of self-defence (as I did and do).The problem is this often took the form of cheerleading in news reporting, which by definition focused on information favourable to Ukraine's military chances, and disregarded information conversely favourable to Russia's military chances. It also has involved a large amount of deference to the claims of Ukraine's authorities.
That narrative was bolstered by the failure of Russia's initial war aims, and by Ukraine's partial successes in late 2022 in recapturing occupied land.But Ukraine's repeatedly vaunted 2023 counteroffensive was clearly a terrible failure.
The argument being made loudly now is that Ukraine has been starved of necessary weapons from the West, not least due to Republican shenanigans in Congress.But in some Western reporting you will glean other details which you can piece together, such as Ukraine's strategic failures, overhyping its military position (until it was clear Ukraine was in serious trouble), and poor use of supplied weapons.
Having to piece together often buried fragments is not an effective means of getting an accurate picture.Clearly making things difficult is a highly effective Russia-linked industry of misinformation. Many reporters may feel concerned that by discussing Ukraine's problems, they will legitimise Russian talking points.
They may also feel that there are problems which are exaggerated by Russia's propaganda campaign, which makes nuanced discussion difficult.That makes the need for sober, factual war reporting all the more necessary - not least in an old-style armed conflict between nation states based on national armies fighting each other. That of course includes accurately reporting on war crimes being committed.There's various other problems.
There's this whole space of think tanks full of people who clearly see themselves as warriors for Western civilisation, and who see Ukraine's war of self-defence as the key frontier. They've been influential in shaping coverage.Read this from the Atlantic Council last September, for example, headlined 'Ukraine’s counteroffensive is making real progress on the Crimean front'. Oh dear oh dear. https://atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-counteroffensive-is-making-real-progress-on-the-crimean-front/…
There's also a big engaged audience on social media understandably very receptive to anti-Putin content. That incentivises content which tells them what they want to hear, and that's not about Ukraine's problems or Russia's military successes and advantages.
There has obviously been very good reporting, including from courageous seasoned war reporters who risk their lives.In general it has been hard to get an accurate picture of the balance of forces in this deeply unpleasant war, not least to get honest assessments of Ukraine's position and strategy.
That will leave many bewildered reading about Russia's current military advances. Many will have been left with the impression that a Russian collapse is simply a matter of time, not least when they read hyped claims that Ukraine could even regain annexed Crimea.
There's another problem, too. As a
@GuardianUS
investigation into CNN's pro-Israel bias uncovered, CNN whistleblowers suggested that tolerance for overt pro-Ukraine positioning in news reporting set a dangerous precedent (see attached).Obviously I do not want Russia's kleptocratic, irredentist gangster regime to achieve its war aims in Ukraine. Partisan cheerleading for Ukraine in news reporting is not going to make that less likely (arguably the opposite given it breeds complacency).
Here is surely a case study for why we need sober war reporting, with reporters who park their understandably profound sympathy for Ukraine with a clear-eyed factual look at the state of play.Anyway, those are just my thoughts, would welcome those of others!
"
Russia's invasion of Ukraine strikes me as a major failure of war reporting.This was a brutal and unjustifiable invasion, and it's understandable that Western journalists would side with Ukraine on basic grounds of self-defence (as I did and do).The problem is this often took the form of cheerleading in news reporting, which by definition focused on information favourable to Ukraine's military chances, and disregarded information conversely favourable to Russia's military chances. It also has involved a large amount of deference to the claims of Ukraine's authorities.
That narrative was bolstered by the failure of Russia's initial war aims, and by Ukraine's partial successes in late 2022 in recapturing occupied land.But Ukraine's repeatedly vaunted 2023 counteroffensive was clearly a terrible failure.
The argument being made loudly now is that Ukraine has been starved of necessary weapons from the West, not least due to Republican shenanigans in Congress.But in some Western reporting you will glean other details which you can piece together, such as Ukraine's strategic failures, overhyping its military position (until it was clear Ukraine was in serious trouble), and poor use of supplied weapons.
Having to piece together often buried fragments is not an effective means of getting an accurate picture.Clearly making things difficult is a highly effective Russia-linked industry of misinformation. Many reporters may feel concerned that by discussing Ukraine's problems, they will legitimise Russian talking points.
They may also feel that there are problems which are exaggerated by Russia's propaganda campaign, which makes nuanced discussion difficult.That makes the need for sober, factual war reporting all the more necessary - not least in an old-style armed conflict between nation states based on national armies fighting each other. That of course includes accurately reporting on war crimes being committed.There's various other problems.
There's this whole space of think tanks full of people who clearly see themselves as warriors for Western civilisation, and who see Ukraine's war of self-defence as the key frontier. They've been influential in shaping coverage.Read this from the Atlantic Council last September, for example, headlined 'Ukraine’s counteroffensive is making real progress on the Crimean front'. Oh dear oh dear. https://atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-counteroffensive-is-making-real-progress-on-the-crimean-front/…
There's also a big engaged audience on social media understandably very receptive to anti-Putin content. That incentivises content which tells them what they want to hear, and that's not about Ukraine's problems or Russia's military successes and advantages.
There has obviously been very good reporting, including from courageous seasoned war reporters who risk their lives.In general it has been hard to get an accurate picture of the balance of forces in this deeply unpleasant war, not least to get honest assessments of Ukraine's position and strategy.
That will leave many bewildered reading about Russia's current military advances. Many will have been left with the impression that a Russian collapse is simply a matter of time, not least when they read hyped claims that Ukraine could even regain annexed Crimea.
There's another problem, too. As a
@GuardianUS
investigation into CNN's pro-Israel bias uncovered, CNN whistleblowers suggested that tolerance for overt pro-Ukraine positioning in news reporting set a dangerous precedent (see attached).Obviously I do not want Russia's kleptocratic, irredentist gangster regime to achieve its war aims in Ukraine. Partisan cheerleading for Ukraine in news reporting is not going to make that less likely (arguably the opposite given it breeds complacency).
Here is surely a case study for why we need sober war reporting, with reporters who park their understandably profound sympathy for Ukraine with a clear-eyed factual look at the state of play.Anyway, those are just my thoughts, would welcome those of others!
TopCat
Putin fanboy
What’s the source for that?
Fez909
toilet expert
Telegram
editor
hiraethified
You can guarantee that whoever wrote that will never be facing that dilemma, although it would be better all round if Putin blew his own head off and saved tens of thousands of lives on both sides.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Anything more specific? Just trying to gauge if it’s real? The continuing prisoner exchanges throughout the conflict suggest all is not lost if a soldier is captured.
ska invita
back on the other side
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I've seen vids of Ukrainian troops saying the same about not falling captive. It seems to happen quite a bit on both sides
Good example is war crazed right wing propaganda outfit the Institute for the Study of War dressed up as carefully neutral.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
It was always made clear to everyone who arrived in Afghanistan or Iraq that being captured was the worst option. A grenade was considered the best way of doing it for any number of technical reasons.
In Bosnia it was, oddly enough, some of the Croat groups, and the very nascent AQ presence that - theoretically - fought on the side of the Bosnian government, who it was considered unwise to be captured by. The Serb group's were equally vile, but the Serbian 'army' was considered to have a much tighter grip on the various groups that fought for/with/alongside them - which was one reason that the war crimes stuff tended to stick to the Serbian 'government'. The Serbs would prefer to hold you hostage and then ransom the UN rather than take you apart or set fire to you....
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
There are countless videos on Telegram of Russian soldiers carrying out those instructions. Grim.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
Do remind me not to join the army anytime soon. Though I'm sure the army will be very relieved to hear that I'm not considering it as a career path at the mo
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Might depend which army.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
People make videos of their mates suicide? What a time to be
Do the video makers kill themselves too? After carefully placing their phone away from the exploding head?
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Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
There was also a video around a couple of weeks ago of a Russian officer briefing a room full of troops that death was certain, but no to worry because it was honourable, and that they would get a good memorial and families would be looked after. Verging on a death cult.
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