Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[cupid_stunt]

i don't understand the ukrainian obsession with that bridge. if they destroy it, what difference is it going to make?

Lots, it's a major supply route to the front line of Russia's illegal war.

 

[gosub]

i don't understand the ukrainian obsession with that bridge. if they destroy it, what difference is it going to make?

Kerch Bridge the12-mile crossing is the only direct land link between Russia and Crimea

 

[editor]

i don't understand the ukrainian obsession with that bridge. if they destroy it, what difference is it going to make?

I would have thought the answer was devastatingly obvious, but here you go:

The Kerch Bridge is strategically important because it links Russia’s Krasnodar region with Crimea, which was illegally annexed by Russia from Ukraine in 2014.

It also has huge symbolic importance for Russia, which built the 12-mile bridge – the longest in Europe – at a cost of around $3.7 billion. It was the physical expression of Putin’s objective to take over Ukraine and bind it to Russia forever.

The day it opened, Putin led a triumphant convoy over the bridge. Ukrainians revile the bridge, which stands as a reminder of Russian occupation.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/17/europe/crimea-bridge-putin-explainer-intl/index.html

 

[andysays]

But apart from its symbolic significance, its strategic importance and its use as a crucial supply route, why are the Ukrainians so obsessed with destroying the Kerch Bridge

 

[Ax^]

i don't understand the ukrainian obsession with that bridge. if they destroy it, what difference is it going to make?

bridge build after the annexation of part of Ukraine.

ponder what symbolism they could be aiming for
plus Putin's quite fond of it

also cost 22 billion to build it so a black eye either way

 

[TopCat]

i don't understand the ukrainian obsession with that bridge. if they destroy it, what difference is it going to make?

The article goes into detail as to the problem with supplying Crimea if the bridge was destroyed.

 

[TopCat]

bridge build after the annexation of part of Ukraine.

ponder what symbolism they could be aiming for
plus Putin's quite fond of it

also cost 22 billion to build it so a black eye either way

22 billion. Hohoho. Roubles? Turkish lira?

 

[Ax^]

seeming as it a Russia bridge let say the second option but add another digit 229 billion

 

[discokermit]

Kerch Bridge the12-mile crossing is the only direct land link between Russia and Crimea

the ukrainians arent going to try and take crimea though, are they?

 

[discokermit]

The article goes into detail as to the problem with supplying Crimea if the bridge was destroyed.

theres lots of shit been wrote. they could send stuff by boat, like they did until the bridge was very recently built. also the russians are building a train line that wont be far off that will pretty much make the bridge redundant.
it would cause a few headaches and a few delays but i think it wouldnt be too much of a problem. i would have thought there were better targets.

 

[discokermit]

bridge build after the annexation of part of Ukraine.

ponder what symbolism they could be aiming for
plus Putin's quite fond of it

also cost 22 billion to build it so a black eye either way

i think the symbolism is probably right. maybe the pr value outweighs any damage those missiles could do round where the fighting is going on. they could certainly do with a boost to morale.

 

[Ax^]

aye just beat me to saying the same thing

just say your reply after I posted the below



a moral boost during a time of war.can be as advantagus as a strategic victory

oddly the Ukrainian people are not to fond of it

 

[Pickman's model]

aye just beat me to saying the same thing

just say your reply after I posted the below



a moral boost during a time of war.can be as advantagus as a strategic victory

oddly the Ukrainian people are not to fond of it

Dk what you have in mind for a moral boost but their morale may have been hit by the extension of conscription. Take more than the destruction of a bridge to remedy that.

 

[discokermit]

I would have thought the answer was devastatingly obvious, but here you go:

pr then.

 

[Pickman's model]

I would have thought the answer was devastatingly obvious, but here you go:

Maybe they do revile it. But as this article points out, there are cogent reasons for the Ukrainians not severing it too. Why Kerch Bridge is so important: Six reasons it is still standing despite attacks

 

[kebabking]

theres lots of shit been wrote. they could send stuff by boat, like they did until the bridge was very recently built. also the russians are building a train line that wont be far off that will pretty much make the bridge redundant.
it would cause a few headaches and a few delays but i think it wouldnt be too much of a problem. i would have thought there were better targets.

the ukrainians arent going to try and take crimea though, are they?

Train tracks are far more vulnerable than road surfaces, and the Ukrainians have illustrated what happens to ships in the Black Sea - and the kind of shipping required to keep Crimea in food, fuel and clean water will be far more vulnerable than any Russian warship.

My guess is that Ukraine won't try a large scale direct assault to try and retake - ala D-Day and Normandy - Crimea, but to use lots of attacks, air, land and sea, as will as a wider campaign against Russian infrastructure outside Crimea, to make it both very difficult, and not worth the effort, to hold.

 

[Ax^]

Dk what you have in mind for a moral boost but their morale may have been hit by the extension of conscription. Take more than the destruction of a bridge to remedy that.

as is the nature of any war

sure the extension of conscription was Popular with the poor bastard drafted in Russia last year

 

[Ax^]

Train tracks are far more vulnerable than road surfaces, and the Ukrainians have illustrated what happens to ships in the Black Sea - and the kind of shipping required to keep Crimea in food, fuel and clean water will be far more vulnerable than any Russian warship.

My guess is that Ukraine won't try a large scale direct assault to try and retake - ala D-Day and Normandy - Crimea, but to use lots of attacks, air, land and sea, as will as a wider campaign against Russian infrastructure outside Crimea, to make it both very difficult, and not worth the effort, to hold.

also a few costal city they could start causing havoc being the lines of the bridge was taken down

 

[tim]

According to Wikipedia they started with reservists. It seems 650k men have fled, reckon another similar number are finishing packing and heading for the carpathians and Romania as we type

Or to join th Russian and Israeli draft dodgers on the beaches of Sri Lanka.

 

[discokermit]

anyway, i got some "fuck you russian bridge" tshirts for sale if anyone is interested. all profits will go to my hamster, vlad.

 

[The39thStep]

bridge build after the annexation of part of Ukraine.

ponder what symbolism they could be aiming for
plus Putin's quite fond of it

also cost 22 billion to build it so a black eye either way

I've seen it estimated at between 3.6b dollars to 4.8b dollars from 8 sites so I am not sure where this estimate of 22 billion comes from. Have you got a source?

 

[The39thStep]

Train tracks are far more vulnerable than road surfaces, and the Ukrainians have illustrated what happens to ships in the Black Sea - and the kind of shipping required to keep Crimea in food, fuel and clean water will be far more vulnerable than any Russian warship.

My guess is that Ukraine won't try a large scale direct assault to try and retake - ala D-Day and Normandy - Crimea, but to use lots of attacks, air, land and sea, as will as a wider campaign against Russian infrastructure outside Crimea, to make it both very difficult, and not worth the effort, to hold.

Yup, drones and sabotage . Save personnel and no limits media.

 

[SpookyFrank]

i don't understand the ukrainian obsession with that bridge. if they destroy it, what difference is it going to make?

If someone destroys a bridge that you have, then you can't use that bridge any more. This means you can no longer transport people and goods from places on one side of the bridge to places on the other side of the bridge. This is a bad thing for you.

 

[Ax^]

I've seen it estimated at between 3.6m dollars to 4.8m dollars from 8 sites so I am not sure where this estimate of 22 billion comes from. Have you got a source?

229 roubles if reports are to be believed


hmm have you taken a look at the bridge itself? its 19km long

looks like this

for contrast this bridge cost 18 million

 

[WouldBe]

The draft proposal put forward by Russia which you are presumably quoting also includes banning Ukraine from importing any weaponry, banning them from possessing missiles with a range of 40km, and banning them from having an armed forces larger than 85,000.

It also required that the guarantor states you name must agree unanimously to guarantee Ukrainian neutrality. The presence of China makes any unified action from guarantors should Russia decide to invade the rest of Ukraine impossible. Moreover Russia knows that none of those countries would engage in direct conflict to defend Ukraine if Russia decided to go on to Kyiv at a later date. There is no serious security guarantee there which is why it wasn't accepted.

There is basically no compromise from Russia here given that they clearly weren't able to progress at the time it was drafted anyway, as evidenced by the fact they have less territory now than when it was drafted. All the compromises were for Ukraine to make.

If Russia is a guarantor to Ukraine not being invaded and Russia changed its mind the Russia would have to fight itself.

 

[Pickman's model]

If Russia is a guarantor to Ukraine not being invaded and Russia changed its mind the Russia would have to fight itself.

Yeh. And obvs they would be as Ukraine has been pronounced Russian.

 

[The39thStep]

229 roubles if reports are to be believed


hmm have you taken a look at the bridge itself? its 19km long

looks like this

for contrast this bridge cost 18 million

229 roubles is around 2.5 dollars. Which sources are you quoting that you want us to believe?

 

[Ax^]

seeming as it a Russia bridge let say the second option but add another digit 229 billion

oh the joy of people who look for low hanging fruit when i've already told top cat it was 229 billion roubles

do you want me to google that for you or can you do the math yourself Steps?

 

[SpookyFrank]

If Russia is a guarantor to Ukraine not being invaded and Russia changed its mind the Russia would have to fight itself.

Where's that Prigozhin fella when you need him.

 

[Pickman's model]

oh the joy of people who look for low hanging fruit when i've already told top cat it was 229 billion roubles

do you want me to google that for you or can you do the math yourself Steps?

Make your mind up, 229,000,000,000 or 229 - there is a difference you know