The Canary, views and discussion...

[lazythursday]

In the dim and distant pre-internet past, most left wing activists would have loved the idea of a left wing, populist, propagandist tabloid that reached millions each month (and of course it was tried and failed, with News on Sunday). Effectively with sites like The Canary, Another Angry Voice etc we now have that wish come true - and I'm inclined to think that despite the clickbait, despite the dodgy business models, despite the sometimes poor journalism it's a good thing that the left is now less outgunned in terms of the overall propaganda arsenal. There's clearly still a gap for more intelligent, less hysterical reportage on the left though, but that would be fulfilling a different function.

 

[frogwoman]

David Icke shit isn't the left though.

Another angry voice seems ok.

 

[Orang Utan]

David Icke shit isn't the left though.

there's an overlap - there are plenty of leftie conspiraloons who'll fall for anything that's not coming from 'the MSM'

 

[chilango]

But, are

sites like The Canary, Another Angry Voice etc.

actually this?

a left wing, populist, propagandist tabloid that reached millions each month

I don't think they are. Nobody I know IRL has ever mentioned any of these sites, or reposted their stuff on FB or used their stories to back up arguments in the pub, at work, at the school gates etc.

 

[frogwoman]

there's an overlap - there are plenty of leftie conspiraloons who'll fall for anything that's not coming from 'the MSM'

Yeah I know, . Hence why I can't see it as a good thing.

 

[DotCommunist]

there's an overlap - there are plenty of leftie conspiraloons who'll fall for anything that's not coming from 'the MSM'

and the bleedthrough into a 'socialism of fools' means they become a complete liability and perfectly legitimise the right managing to take the moral highground over left anti-antisemitism. All that milieu the canary editor is in/from. Occupy, zeitgeist, friggin Icke...

 

[lazythursday]

But, are



actually this?



I don't think they are. Nobody I know IRL has ever mentioned any of these sites, or reposted their stuff on FB or used their stories to back up arguments in the pub, at work, at the school gates etc.

Well I've certainly seen them on my FB feeds, and these sorts of sites have 6 out of 25 of the most shared Facebook articles of the election, including the top 2. Plenty of analysis has suggested that this new eco-system of left wing sites has had an impact on the success of Labour getting round the mainstream media bias. I have my own criticisms and yes, the conspiraloonery fringe concerns me most, but even in the Canary that seems to be a very small part of the output, and perhaps has decreased as the site has got more attention.

 

[chilango]

Well I've certainly seen them on my FB feeds, and these sorts of sites have 6 out of 25 of the most shared Facebook articles of the election, including the top 2. Plenty of analysis has suggested that this new eco-system of left wing sites has had an impact on the success of Labour getting round the mainstream media bias. I have my own criticisms and yes, the conspiraloonery fringe concerns me most, but even in the Canary that seems to be a very small part of the output, and perhaps has decreased as the site has got more attention.

I don't doubt that within (some of) what passes for the Left they are widely shared and so forth.

But they're perhaps more equivalent - in terms of reach and scope - to Socialist Worker, Militant, Schnews, FINs etc. rather actually being genuinely populist, and popular, tabloids of influence. IYSWIM.

 

[frogwoman]

I'd s

and the bleedthrough into a 'socialism of fools' means they become a complete liability and perfectly legitimise the right managing to take the moral highground over left anti-antisemitism. All that milieu the canary editor is in/from. Occupy, zeitgeist, friggin Icke...

Yeah Sooner or later someone is going to get killed because of that shit. Antisemitic incidents were at their highest level in ages last year at about 1300 with many of them violent. Bit depressing when you see it legitimised and see people thinking that it is an ok sentiment on the left.

 

[frogwoman]

That's why I get upset by conspiraloons, this shit has consequences it ain't some weird obsession. Same with anti vaxers, like measles and shit like that is making a comeback because of that stupidity.

 

[killer b]

I don't doubt that within (some of) what passes for the Left they are widely shared and so forth.

But they're perhaps more equivalent - in terms of reach and scope - to Socialist Worker, Militant, Schnews, FINs etc. rather actually being genuinely populist, and popular, tabloids of influence. IYSWIM.

They are massive. Like them or not, they have a huge reach and were fairly significant in the recent election results. We can't just write tjis stuff off as meaningless fringe shit anymore.

 

[lazythursday]

I don't doubt that within (some of) what passes for the Left they are widely shared and so forth.

But they're perhaps more equivalent - in terms of reach and scope - to Socialist Worker, Militant, Schnews, FINs etc. rather actually being genuinely populist, and popular, tabloids of influence. IYSWIM.

No, I think you're wrong. You don't get to be the most shared political thing on Facebook (Another Angry Voice rather than The Canary) by just reaching one section of the left. Thanks to social media these sites are getting huge reach, outside of an activist bubble. Not for all of their content by any means, but they are arguably starting to become as influential as the tabloids, or at least blunting the influence of the tabloids.

 

[killer b]

this article has the number chilango

25 most-shared articles about UK election are almost all pro-Labour

 

[killer b]

(fwiw I'm much more in favour of Another Angry Voice than most of the others - he does good work)

 

[chilango]

I don't believe either of you

I think the numbers are misleading in terms of both reach and influence.

...but y'know, as always, I could be wrong.

 

[J Ed]

(fwiw I'm much more in favour of Another Angry Voice than most of the others - he does good work)

I don't like AAV that much because he writes some weird sneery liberal things but he is mostly OK and definitely nowhere near the same level as the likes of The Canary which imo are actively harmful.

 

[J Ed]

I don't believe either of you

I think the numbers are misleading in terms of both reach and influence.

...but y'know, as always, I could be wrong.

For what it is worth I've had a few FB friends who I didn't/don't regard as that 'political' who share articles from The Canary.

 

[chilango]

I should add that I'm not intending to dismiss the dangers they pose, or deny that have some reach and influence...rather that they are a million miles from being "genuinely populist, and popular, tabloids of influence"

 

[frogwoman]

I dunno I have seen loads of people share that stuff (mostly my age and younger) who aren't political at all generally speaking . It does have influence.

 

[chilango]

I should also add that I don't spend much time on social media and certainly don't "do politics" on social media. My observations are from the workplace, the community, the school gates etc. From "meatspace" and whilst people still talk about stuff they've seen on TV, read in the papers etc. they don't generally use social media stuff as support for discussions IRL.

 

[chilango]

Maybe its an age thing?

 

[killer b]

nah, people I know of all ages are into the canary/skawkbox scene. Older ones a bit more in fact.

 

[lazythursday]

Many of their posts are reaching hundreds of thousands, and often millions of people. They have social media reach the Sun would kill for. Yes, I think it could very well be an age thing.

 

[Orang Utan]

Does the Mirror do much any more?
I can't read tabloid sites online cos they take so long to load and they make articles hard to read even with adblock

 

[DotCommunist]

Does the Mirror do much any more?
I can't read tabloid sites online cos they take so long to load and they make articles hard to read even with adblock

still a labour leaning paper with all that implies, I check headlines at the shop daily (ad mania on the websites is a massive ache in the balls. Local news websites are the worst for it) and it still seems that way to me

 

[lazythursday]

I must admit I've not necessarily heard people saying 'Did you see that in the Canary?' but I have heard people quoting facts and figures and lines of argument that you know are taken from an AAV meme on Facebook, or a line of argument being pushed by these sites in general. I think when things are shared on social media people are less likely to notice which site exactly the info has come from.

I don't think I ever come across anyone who reads physical newspapers any more - it's social media or apps.

 

[chilango]

nah, people I know of all ages are into the canary/skawkbox scene. Older ones a bit more in fact.

Many of their posts are reaching hundreds of thousands, and often millions of people. They have social media reach the Sun would kill for. Yes, I think it could very well be an age thing.

Why am I not seeing their stuff - at all?

I've literally never heard anyone away from here even mention them?

Am I that "out of touch"?

 

[frogwoman]

Why am I not seeing their stuff - at all?

I've literally never heard anyone away from here even mention them?

Am I that "out of touch"?

Maybe just doesn't come up in conversation?

 

[Orang Utan]

Maybe just doesn't come up in conversation?

Politics rarely comes up IRL conversations IME.
It's only really discussed online, thankfully

 

[frogwoman]

Politics rarely comes up IRL conversations IME.
It's only really discussed online, thankfully

Yeah indeed