The Ashes 2017-18

[redsquirrel]

Thing is I can't see they can make many changes, they just don't have much personnel they need.

Can't see Overton playing either remaining Test so you'd think Ball would come in for him. But aside from that who do they drop? They aren't going to drop Cook, but even if they wanted to who's going to replace him? Jennings? I don't think so. They don't have any other openers. Likewise, even if they did want to drop Ali who's going to replace him? They need his batting (well in theory), the most similar replacement for him would be Patel but he's not over here, so either they keep playing Ali regardless of form or make a change to the balance of the team.

I suppose if they are 4-0 down and Sydney looks like it might turn you could play either Leach and/or Crane but it'd be a case of 'what have we got to lose'. Plus I never like playing a debutant in the last game of a series, it's begging for the Kerrigan type of treatment.

 

[Mumbles274]

Give some other players a taste in dead rubbers. Fuck playing for pride?

Dropping Ali like they dropped Root etc?

Broad, Cook, Anderson are all maybe pushing their last Ashes tours so why not?

Just a thought, and one I know they wont do..

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can't drop Anderson. He's the only bowler who's turned up. Not sure I'd drop anyone tbh. There's nobody in the backup I think is any good either except perhaps Foakes.

 

[redsquirrel]

But who are you replacing them with? Even if they wanted to shake things up I don't really think they can

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Some positives for England. Rookies Malan, Stoneman and Vince have done quite well and have shown character with some decent solid performances. Unfortunately it's some of the more senior players that haven't quite managed to bring their usual A game and have not backed them up. Boycs says Stokes would not have changed the result, and he may have a point, who knows for sure? He's an impact player who often finds a way to make things happen, he'll take an outstanding catch when things are looking a bit bleak, counter attack with the bat and demoralise the opposition bowlers. I think England would have had a much better chance of at least one win with him in the team but perhaps not enough to retain the Ashes.

I don't think there's a real need to panic just for the good players in the team to play to their ability and normal high standard.

 

[Spymaster]

Can't drop Anderson. He's the only bowler who's turned up. Not sure I'd drop anyone tbh. There's nobody in the backup I think is any good either except perhaps Foakes.

More importantly what's going to be done next year? We've got India coming here in the summer and at the moment we've got a number 2 and a number 5, probably Vince keeping his spot at 3 and Cook looking like he might jack it in. Being kind, all of the bowlers except Anderson are misfiring and I don't think hoping that the conditions will suit us better (a poor excuse, imo) is going to cut the mustard.

 

[redsquirrel]

Woakes has had a bad tour but his form in the UK is much, much better (which is not especially surprising at this stage in his career, Anderson had some bad tours when he was beginning too), look at when the lights were on at Adelaide, he was dangerous. Likewise Ali has been very under par but he was excellent during the summer after a poor winter in India. Roland-Jones should be back by then and Overton hasn't disgraced himself. Broad has been some way from his best for a while and replacing him is going to weaken the bowling but I don' think a bowling attack of - Anderson, Stokes, Woakes, Ali and Overton/Roland-Jones/Wood/Whoever is bad in English conditions.

The batting is more worrying. Stoneman, Vince and Malan have probably done enough to keep their positions but I'm not totally convinced by them (especially the first two). Hameed was the obvious replacement for Cook but after last season that's a bit up in the air.

 

[redsquirrel]

Robson had a decent season, if he makes some runs in April/May he must be in with a decent chance of a recall.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

More importantly what's going to be done next year? We've got India coming here in the summer and at the moment we've got a number 2 and a number 5, probably Vince keeping his spot at 3 and Cook looking like he might jack it in. Being kind, all of the bowlers except Anderson are misfiring and I don't think hoping that the conditions will suit us better (a poor excuse, imo) is going to cut the mustard.

Hameed for Cook - like for like. Bowling, dunno. Broad might be in decline. Anderson, who knows how long he'll last. Moeen may regain his mojo - did amazingly well v India last time. Likewise Woakes. Stokes will be back. Who knows maybe Jack Leach may get a go.

But I agree that a new exciting bowler or two needs to emerge. wtf happened to Mark Footitt? Only saw him bowl once, but he was quick and hostile and a leftie. He looked a right handful. There is also the other Overton as well, of course.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Woakes has had a bad tour but his form in the UK is much, much better (which is not especially surprising at this stage in his career, Anderson had some bad tours when he was beginning too), look at when the lights were on at Adelaide, he was dangerous. .

My worry with Woakes is that he'd turned a corner as a genuinely pacy bowler just before the injury. He's England's fastest bowler in this series, but that's not saying much unfortunately. He needs that extra yard, imo. He's innocuous otherwise, and he may not fully get that back.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Any

Hameed was the obvious replacement for Cook but after last season that's a bit up in the air.

Hameed was turning things around at the end of last season. Apparently he had tried to change his game for some mystifying reason - becoming more expansive - and totally lost it for a while. Unless he has a horror start to the season, I'd have him straight in.

 

[Spymaster]

Will Root keep the captaincy if we lose 5-0? Massive bollock dropped in Adelaide and questionable in Brisbane.

 

[redsquirrel]

Who else you going to give it to?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Will Root keep the captaincy if we lose 5-0? Massive bollock dropped in Adelaide and questionable in Brisbane.

Yes.

And this crap about it affecting his batting doesn't wash, imo. Smith, Kohli and Williamson have all flourished with the captaincy. No reason whatever why Root cannot do so also. Truth is that he's had two tours of Aus now and failed with the bat on both, sadly.

 

[Reiabuzz]

If vince is considered a bright point of the tour that’s a very sad state of affairs. He’s not international test quality. Constantly wafting outside off miles away from his pads. There has to a better option. Put root at three, make bairstow a specialist batsman and bring in foakes. The selectors should also be sacked.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I didn't see it, but by all accounts, Vince played brilliantly yesterday before getting out to the ball of the series. Harsh to have a go at him at this moment.

tbh the poor performance is due to the experienced players not turning up, not the new ones: Cook, Root, Ali, Broad, Woakes, all poor to very poor. Of the experienced players, only two, Anderson and Bairstow, have turned up.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Give some other players a taste in dead rubbers. Fuck playing for pride?

Dropping Ali like they dropped Root etc?

Broad, Cook, Anderson are all maybe pushing their last Ashes tours so why not?

Just a thought, and one I know they wont do..

I think they should give the current crop of players a chance to redeem themselves, They didn't suddenly become crap players overnight, they are still a good team. Cooks performance has been the most worrying, I think he's lost his mojo since losing the captaincy, if he doesn't find it in the next two tests I can see him calling it a day and not waiting to be dropped. Root is a class player and I expect him to return to form, I don't think he should lose the captaincy even if England are whitewashed. Broad has also not performed as well as he could have. Should Ali be dropped? Perhaps but then who takes his place? He was the number 1 all rounder and has played a crucial part in previous test wins.

Again he hasn't suddenly become a crap player overnight. Lyon had his number down under in Aussie home conditions, just like Anderson and Broad were almost unplayable in English conditions. Even the good captains mentioned above don't do so well away from home. It's just one of those things. Michael Clarkes team (including Smithy and the dreaded Mitch Johnson) got soundly beaten in the previous Ashes. Kohli's India weren't much cop here either.

 

[Mumbles274]

The only change will be Overton not playing due to his rib, we'll go back to English conditions and pat ourselves on the back for a while then rinse and repeat! The new players did make some progress, that's what you want to see, those that haven't done well will be needing to turn it round.

Something isn't working for this England set up, lets hope the inevitable inquest finds out what

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Something isn't working for this England set up, lets hope the inevitable inquest finds out what

It's called playing in Australia. Home advantage plays a significant role. I don't think there needs to be too much of an inquest just pick the best team from the available players and give them good support.

 

[redsquirrel]

To be honest I think one of the biggest ways to improve the away form would be better preparation. More matches, and competitive first class matches not these crappy two day substitution things would help.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

To be honest I think one of the biggest ways to improve the away form would be better preparation. More matches, and competitive first class matches not these crappy two day substitution things would help.

Won't happen. Set to happen even less than it does now with the crammed ftp.

I completely agree, btw. But that's firmly in the past.

What is happening is individual players are preparing for overseas conditions by playing domestic cricket. Sangakkara did it for England, playing for Durham before the series. Ashwin has played in England to get used to the conditions.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah I know it won't happen but it's a huge mistake for all countries and is in part responsible for the lowering of the quality of Test cricket.

 

[Mumbles274]

Which brings an arguement in to pick some of the Lions to see who can perform? Let Cook, Ali, Broad, Anderson have a break and put some others to the 'test'

 

[Reiabuzz]

I didn't see it, but by all accounts, Vince played brilliantly yesterday before getting out to the ball of the series. Harsh to have a go at him at this moment.

tbh the poor performance is due to the experienced players not turning up, not the new ones: Cook, Root, Ali, Broad, Woakes, all poor to very poor. Of the experienced players, only two, Anderson and Bairstow, have turned up.

He smashed plenty of boundaries but only scored something like four singles. That’s not a test player.

 

[Lord Camomile]

we'll go back to English conditions and pat ourselves on the back for a while then rinse and repeat!

It's called playing in Australia. Home advantage plays a significant role.

This seems to echo something Graeme Swann said:

We go back to England and we trounce everyone at home because we are used to the ball and used to the conditions. Cracks get papered over when we are in England. All teams are like this - great at home and rubbish away.

Is he right that all teams are like this? I only really ever follow the Ashes, so not familiar with wider trends.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This seems to echo something Graeme Swann said:


Is he right that all teams are like this? I only really ever follow the Ashes, so not familiar with wider trends.

Wider trend, yes, sadly.

 

[Mumbles274]

South Africa do pretty well away

 

[Reiabuzz]

Graeme Swann lost his right to comment on the England team when he walked out on the side. And set up that weird fake KP twitter account. A cunt of the highest order.

 

[redsquirrel]

This seems to echo something Graeme Swann said:


Is he right that all teams are like this? I only really ever follow the Ashes, so not familiar with wider trends.

By and large it's pretty on the money. SA have (had) a good away record but not many other teams. Look at the list of results I gave for series played in Aus, all pretty one-sided bar SA.

India haven't won a Test match in Australia in their last two tours (lost 6, drawn 2)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

South Africa do pretty well away

They do well in Aus. And Aus do well in SA, oddly. But they lost in England this year and were thrashed in India.