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The Ashes 2019

planetgeli said:
They've never liked Plunkett. Appalling treatment.
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It's inconsistent treatment, imo. Plunkett may be moving over the hill perhaps, but he's 34 and fit at the moment. Anderson is 37 and unfit, but still gets a contract.

If they're going for the harsh realism, non-sentimental approach, surely there is no value to giving Anderson a contract now. Gets fit again, great. Doesn't, and no problem. There's no need to protect him or manage his domestic duties like there is for someone like Archer, either way.
 
On opening:

Michael Carberry: ‘Some of the people who have selected the team are idiots’

“What I’m seeing with promoting Jason Roy to open the batting from white-ball cricket, to me shows utter disrespect for how hard the job is. They’re almost taking the stance that, well, anybody can do it. Not everyone can do it. And unfortunately for Jason, he’s been put in a very, very difficult position where he doesn’t know whether to stick or twist because it’s not a job he does regularly, and his stats against new-ball bowling aren’t great.”

Obv more in wisden mag
 
Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
Out of all the openers we've tried Carberry was the most hard done by IMO. He might not have set the world on fire but he did well enough in a series where pretty much everyone struggled to at least earn another shot. He's well within his rights to be pissed off with them.
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I agree, but I think Compton runs him a close second. Discarded after a couple of iffy tests against NZ in England following a minor but important role in a famous series win in India and twin hundreds in NZ straight after that. All because they wanted Root to open, an experiment that itself was swiftly discarded.

Both Carberry and Compton were at least partly dropped for non-cricketing reasons, too. Also, expectations have definitely been lowered through these seven years of famine. Rory Burns is firmly in possession after 12 tests with an average that, while improving, is still under 30. Carberry and Compton would probably have survived longer if picked today, just because the expected average has dropped from 'something over 40' to 'anything over 30'. Compton, Carberry and Robson would all have kept their places for longer today.
 
Any Chris Silverwood as new head coach. I'm not really sure whether there is going to be any great philosophy or tactical changes.

I'm hoping that actually having a head coach based in England and already immersed in the county game may mean unearthing a couple of decent players. I know Bayliss had a large network of coaches and others to go out and watch the games but it always struck me as odd that he didn't live in England which meant that the first time he saw (live, in the flesh) some players play in a match was when playing for England.

Fun fact time. I've actually played against Chris Silverwood back in his playing days, he didn't get me out. This now makes me feel old.
 
Hmmm. I don't see anything affectionate in putting your hand on your partner's throat.

You might be right about the video, but we'll see I guess.
 
Programme coming up on Amazon Prime, The Test (March 12th), which shows footage from Aussie team meetings in the Ashes, notably the Headingley Test and the morning after. Promises warts and all, straight-talking Aussies, especially Justin Langer. Looks good.

www.espncricinfo.com

Justin Langer confronted Tim Paine in raw Headingley debrief

'The Test' will show footage from team meetings and training sessions, with commentary from players
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
 
planetgeli said:
Programme coming up on Amazon Prime, The Test (March 12th), which shows footage from Aussie team meetings in the Ashes, notably the Headingley Test and the morning after. Promises warts and all, straight-talking Aussies, especially Justin Langer. Looks good.

www.espncricinfo.com

Justin Langer confronted Tim Paine in raw Headingley debrief

'The Test' will show footage from team meetings and training sessions, with commentary from players
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
Click to expand...

I’m not sure any of you have watched this because there’s been no comment but littlebabyjesus Teaboy et al you really should give it a watch. If nothing else it’s one hell of an insight into sports psychology and the way the Aussies prepared not to be beaten in the Ashes. It’s actually eight episodes long and takes you from their lowest point (sandpaper gate) through the World Cup and the Ashes series. I’ll admit I missed out the middle episodes (watched some of the India series, bit of Pakistan) because I wanted to get to the Ashes.

You don’t have to like Langer (who features most prominently) to appreciate his desire to win and the fact he is really good at his job. Some come out better than others. Mitch Marsh (who knew?) comes across as a decent bloke for one. Siddle too. Labuschange is frightening, Steve Smith’s little sidekick - but some sidekick.

A really good up close in yer face no holds barred look inside Australian cricket. Virtually nothing went unanalysed or unaccounted for.

If you have Prime, you’re missing out by not watching it. If only for that schadenfreude Nathan Lyon moment (which he is made painfully to review the next day) alone.

Watch it.
 
Not got prime but may try to find it for the Lyon moment. :D

Not surprised Siddle comes out of it ok. Always struck me as very straightforward, and he's massively popular at Essex.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Not got prime but may try to find it for the Lyon moment. :D

Not surprised Siddle comes out of it ok. Always struck me as very straightforward, and he's massively popular at Essex.
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I'm going to add a bit to that because its almost impossible I think to see stuff from Prime if you don't have Prime.

Just on those individuals. Mitch Marsh is simply decent - and funny with it. The dressing room joker, not at all in a Gazza type way, just in a funny, keeps their spirits up type way, and not afraid to joke even when Langer is there (although admittedly behind Langer's back).

Langer interested me. Almost everything he said was positive, even when being critical. He never raised his voice once at an individual. He also seemed prepared to listen to those around him. It made me think of all that rubbish you hear from football managers, platitudinous rubbish - Langer is the opposite of that. Never a word wasted. You'd listen to what he says if you were in his team.

And Labuschagne - frightening in his dedication. The new Steve Smith. While others would be taking the piss out of Smith for practising forward defensives in his hotel room at midnight (which he does) Labuschagne would be straining his ears to hear the exact sound Smith's bat was making as it tapped the floor. I've made that up. But it's pretty close to the truth. He even tidies Smith's stuff for him in the dressing room, for which Smith gives him one of his bats. Labus' sees this as "the best deal of the year". If he really does have the talent to match the dedication he is going to be Aussies number 1 for a long time once Smith packs it in.

An interesting comparison would be to see a documentary on England and how they prepared. I'd be surprised if it even came close to the Aussies.

I'd also forgotten how England were handed the 5th Test by Paine winning the toss and bowling. Broad's face is a picture as he hears "we'll have a bowl". You'd expect Langer to be fuming. (Actually you'd expect Langer to have had input, but he obviously left his trust in Paine). And instead of an immediate post-mortem on the toss Langer and co just accept it's a wrong decision by Paine with the words "We'll just have to look at this like we lost the toss" - and get on with it.

It really is sports psychology at its best.
 
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Ah I should have put the details of the repeat in here but I just fumbled about for a cricket thread this morning in my haste to get it posted. Currently listening to day 1 of last year's Ashes 3rd Test at Headingley as the BBC are replaying them on 5 Live this week. Feels massively cosy and almost completely takes away the issues of the day. Dovetails quite nicely with the above.
 
planetgeli said:
I’m not sure any of you have watched this because there’s been no comment but littlebabyjesus Teaboy et al you really should give it a watch. If nothing else it’s one hell of an insight into sports psychology and the way the Aussies prepared not to be beaten in the Ashes. It’s actually eight episodes long and takes you from their lowest point (sandpaper gate) through the World Cup and the Ashes series. I’ll admit I missed out the middle episodes (watched some of the India series, bit of Pakistan) because I wanted to get to the Ashes.

You don’t have to like Langer (who features most prominently) to appreciate his desire to win and the fact he is really good at his job. Some come out better than others. Mitch Marsh (who knew?) comes across as a decent bloke for one. Siddle too. Labuschange is frightening, Steve Smith’s little sidekick - but some sidekick.

A really good up close in yer face no holds barred look inside Australian cricket. Virtually nothing went unanalysed or unaccounted for.

If you have Prime, you’re missing out by not watching it. If only for that schadenfreude Nathan Lyon moment (which he is made painfully to review the next day) alone.

Watch it.
Click to expand...

I've not watched it but I did see a few minutes clip on the time Archer hit Smith and what was going on the aussie changing room. In that clip I thought the management team came across terribly, it was quite clear to me that Smith needed saving from himself yet he was largely left alone to make his own decisions. Even a good cornerman knows when their prize fighter needs saving from themselves, yet Smith appears to be beyond question in that changing room. That clip made the set up look quite toxic but then again watching one element in isolation probably doesn't do the thing justice.
 
Teaboy said:
I've not watched it but I did see a few minutes clip on the time Archer hit Smith and what was going on the aussie changing room. In that clip I thought the management team came across terribly, it was quite clear to me that Smith needed saving from himself yet he was largely left alone to make his own decisions. Even a good cornerman knows when their prize fighter needs saving from themselves, yet Smith appears to be beyond question in that changing room. That clip made the set up look quite toxic but then again watching one element in isolation probably doesn't do the thing justice.
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Yeah you need to watch the whole thing. The interesting bit in the doc about that clip is Smith's own explanation of how he felt when he came back out to bat. "I wanted to defend. And I just couldn't. My body wouldn't do what my brain knew was right." Or something like that. When it came to being left out of the next Test, that was entirely down to the medical team. They told Langer Smith wasn't playing, and Langer had no say in it at all. And neither did Smith.

Toxic is not a word I would even consider having watched most of the doc. I was amazed at the amount of experts Langer brought in and listened to. And at his man-management skills with the players. It made a bunch of generally average individuals (with obvious exceptions) into a team who did everything together and wanted to be together.
 
He was subbed the next day and dropped from the following test after they had received a barrage of criticism and rightly so. Smith was very potentially putting himself in a very dangerous situation, potentially fatal, and all because he wanted to get on the honours board. Nothing against Smith (in this incident) and maybe the word toxic isn't quite right but it was certainly a major systematic error because they failed to do what was right for the good of their player and that was a failure of a system. The fact he was later subbed and deemed not ready for the next game just underlines how crazy it was letting him go back out there on the same day.

Whatever else may have been, that incident in isolation was proper fucked up.

Anyway, I don't have prime but I'm sure it'll turn up on youtube one day.
 
Teaboy said:
He was subbed the next day and dropped from the following test after they had received a barrage of criticism and rightly so. Smith was very potentially putting himself in a very dangerous situation, potentially fatal, and all because he wanted to get on the honours board. Nothing against Smith (in this incident) and maybe the word toxic isn't quite right but it was certainly a major systematic error because they failed to do what was right for the good of their player and that was a failure of a system. The fact he was later subbed and deemed not ready for the next game just underlines how crazy it was letting him go back out there on the same day.

Whatever else may have been, that incident in isolation was proper fucked up.

Anyway, I don't have prime but I'm sure it'll turn up on youtube one day.
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I hope you do get to watch it. You'd have a lot more to talk about, whether you end up agreeing with my interpretation or not. The doc covers 2 years, a World Cup and an Ashes series and provides insight behind the scenes like you've never seen before. Which is why I tagged you in. As you yourself said, watching and talking about one incident in isolation doesn't do it justice. You can accept that incident was mismanaged without detracting from the whole picture the doc tries to put over. It is a good, and to me unique look at international cricket.
 
planetgeli said:
I hope you do get to watch it. You'd have a lot more to talk about, whether you end up agreeing with my interpretation or not. The doc covers 2 years, a World Cup and an Ashes series and provides insight behind the scenes like you've never seen before. Which is why I tagged you in. As you yourself said, watching and talking about one incident in isolation doesn't do it justice. You can accept that incident was mismanaged without detracting from the whole picture the doc tries to put over. It is a good, and to me unique look at international cricket.
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Oh for sure. Sorry if I came across in arguing against you about something I've not seen. I was just talking about one moment that proper pissed me off at the time and further pissed me off having seen that clip.

I will sort out a way of watching it and I will try with an open mind but I struggle with the way the aussie national team play cricket and have done for years.
 
The clips I've seen of the aussie doc make me want to watch it. I can't see England ever making something so interesting, even compared to Australia's YouTube channel England are well behind on quality and content they put out
 
a_chap said:
Planning on listening to it all day :)

I wish they'd replay entire matches like this more often. The "live" coverage is much, much better than edited highlights :thumbs:
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Hope Eurosport do something similar with old Tour de France stages, especially if this years is cancelled. They could even have a little news-ticker run at the bottom when people like Armstrong appear, reminding everyone he is a cheat.
 


Spent an hour in bed watching this again last night. In these sometimes depressing days of lockdown, there's worse ways to spend an hour.

I'd also forgotten that Leach's single in that partnership didn't come until they only needed two runs to win.
 
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