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Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza

rachamim said:
Yes Dylan, because "posters" and not "posts" matter to those whose ideology is as weak as a paper bag. Am I or am I not a Fascist? Why should it even matter? That was the point made and a point just as valid now, sadly. Urban75 is NOT a Communist message board. It is a community with people who hold disparate views. I find the whole brouhaha over "Fascism" to be ridiculous. Morons equate it with racism, National Socialism and other views that I personally find abhorrent. Stripped of its economic component it is simply an ideology that places the state at the top of the pyramid. It is amazing how ignorant people can be.
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You're a prime example of this ignorance
 
Circle Jerks are fun I have been told but wouldn't it be more enlightening to see how your views stack up against factual information? I mean fart jokes and name calling can take up the rest of your day but why not devote at least a modicum of energy towards proving your points? I realise that as someone who doesn't automatically spit on Israel I make myself a proxy to catch all the piss and vinegar tossed about by people hiding behind computer screens with made up screen names but really, would not integrity be something a bit more worthwhile? It would be very easy to respond to semi-retarded name calling but instead I find it much more appealing to confront sheer ignorance with facts.
 
rachamim said:
Dylan: The UN is not an arbiter of International Law. Courts rule on law, not the General Assembly ((the Security Council can only refer cases to The Hague, its Resolutions do not effect the Rule of Law). Therefore, the UN cannot "decide" ANYTHING is "illegal." As for a fictitious "occupation," you may want to acquaint yourself with a principle in IHL/LOAC (International Humanitarian Law/Law of Armed Conflict) known as "Terra Nulius." To legally occupy a land that land must have had its sovereignity subverted. The so called "West Bank" was illegaly annexed by Jordan whose sovereignity went unrecognised by every nation except Great Britain, the entity that created Jordan illegaly in the first place. Be that as it may, Jordan relinquished its claim on the so called "West Bank" in 1988 having done so informally in the 1967 Armistice Negotiations.

As for Gaza, it was illegaly occupied by Egypt in 1948 but never formally annexed and so it has always existed as Terra Nulius, at least since its last organic sovereignity which of course was that of Judaea nearly 2 millenia ago. Ergo Israel has every right under IHL/LOAC to control both territories but for pragmatic reasons has opted not to annex either one. Indeed, in 2005 Israel abandoned Gaza with the hope that "Palestinians" would finally found the nation they claim to desire.

'The Peace Process is a smokescreen to further Israel's expansionist plans vis a vis the so called "Settlements".': "Settlements" are merely being manipulated by the PA as it tries to deflect attention- internally AND externally- away from its inability to co-exist with Israel. Both Israel and the PA have agreed on a "Palestinian" state that will consist of 100 percent of Gaza and 93 percent of the so called "West Bank." The 7 percent of the "West Bank" to be retained by Israel contains all the largest "Settlment" blocs. The 7 percent differential is to be offset by 7 percent of Israel proper so that in the end "Palestinians" end up with an area equal to 100 percent of the so called "West Bank."

The sticking point has been the 7 percent differential. Before Talks broke down in 2010 Israel had offered successive tracts, all contigious to either Gaza or the so called "West Bank." The PA refused each and everyone without pushing for alternatives as if unable to actually close the deal which would of course be a tacit acceptance that "Palestinians" will end their push for the entire former British Mandate of Palestine. PA President Abbas knows that IF the PA closes the deal it is the end of the PA and his grip on power.

Still, since both sides have agreed that Israel will retain its extant "Settlements" the existence of "Settlements" is in no way an impediment to peace. So called "Settlement Expansion" is merely "Natural Expansion," the additional units going to current residents who come of age and marry. This sort of expansion does not significantly alter boundries and was factored into the tacit agreement that fell apart in 2010.

CTN36: Why do you care what Chomsky thinks? I have a barber who also holds political opinions. I do not let him shape my geopolitical outlook. Chomsky is a brillant Linguist and nothing else. Morally he is bankrupt. What do you rhink about the Irrevocable Trust he established for his daughter? Such a basic hypocrisy ("Fuc* the rich...except me because I am special" or "Capitalism is inherently evil and I can tell you all about it at $12,000 for a 1 hour speech") is a tad bit troubling, don't you think?

Nylock: 'The UN Vote means nothing.': Indeed it means only that the PA can now put member states to sleep with hyperbolic speeches that bounce from one fantasy to the next. It simply converted the PA's status from Non State Entity Observer to Non Member Stte Observer. The PA still cannot vote or table Resolutions. It can however engage in debate and join UN bodies (in addition to UNESCO which it joined this past summer).


(Edited for spelling)
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Chomsky is well aware of his flaws. He has taken the position that it is incredibly difficult to live life in a capitalist society without in some way being compromised by it. There are few options but to live in society as it is. He would probably refer to the fact he works at MIT an institution involved in all sorts of things he finds questionable. I refered to Chomsky as Tom (imo) didn't describe Chomsky's views fully. I was merely elaborating. If your barber has produced several books on the subject and to have researched it fully I would care what he had to say. I would then take the time to look into what he says and whether it is based in fact or whether it was nonsense. On that basis I care what Chomsky says even if I don't always agree with it.
 
'Settlement expansion is 'natural' expansion... and therefore the boundaries have not been altered?' :hmm:

Seriously? :facepalm:

I find it most interesting to look at when people want to recognise UN decisions and when they don't.
 
Who gives a fuck what the law says? If you don't understand why a brutal military occupation and enforced settlements are wrong then you're a horrible cunt who deserves to be on the receiving end of the kind of treatment you support for others.
 
SpineyNorman: What "Enforced Settlements" are you referring to? As for "Brutal Occupation" you must be joking. Since 1967, when Israel first gained control of those territories male life expectancy has nearly doubled in Gaza (48 to 75) and jumped 20 years in the so called "West Bank." From 1967 to 1993 when Israel oversaw the economy it grew by 25 percent ANNUALLY. Per capita GDP was higher than any surrounding Arab nation, literacy jumped 9 fold, residential electricity jumped from 20 percent to 94 percent, running water mirrored it. Where there was just one highschool for both territories in 1967 but there were hundreds in 1993. From zero universities there were 7. Water availability doubled from 64 million cubic meters annually to 120 million and on and on and on. For the first time "Palestinians" elected their own leaders, policed themselves, controlled their own educational system and religious institutions. Womens Rights were upheld for the first time and yet people such as yourself categorise Israeli administration as brutal.

CNT36: So what if a person wrote "lots of book?." That means that their views are sensibile? Chomsky DOES have to make do but he DOES NOT have to create fast and loose tax shelters to secrete many millions of US Dollars while simultaneously raising his voice in anger at the upper classes for utilising those very same tax shelters. That is known as "hypocrisy" and bespeaks an extremely flawed personality and outlook. Does he count the $12,000 per hour honorariums he receive as "accomodations" as well?
 
not sure if this has been posted, but a group of footballers have co-signed a letter calling for the U21 Euros to be held somewhere other than Israel next year

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/30/footballers-u21-european-championship-israel

A group of Premier League footballers and players in other major European leagues have condemned plans to hold the Under-21 European championship in Israel next year, saying it will be seen as a "reward" for this month's assault on Gaza in which young people playing football were killed when a sports stadium was bombed.
The signatories, who include Eden Hazard of Chelsea, Abou Diaby of Arsenal and five Newcastle players – Papiss Cissé, Cheick Tioté, Sylvain Marveaux, Yohan Cabaye and Demba Ba – also criticised Israel's continued detention without charge or trial of two Palestinian footballers.
Several former Premier League players have also signed the letter, including Didier Drogba and Frédéric Kanouté, both of whom now play in China. Players with QPR, Stoke, Blackburn and Ipswich are among the signatories along with footballers in France, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Turkey.
The statement roundly condemns the Israeli assault on Gaza, describing it as "yet another stain on the world's conscience" and expresses "solidarity with the people of Gaza who are living under siege and denied basic human dignity and freedom".
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Ruttia: Selectively quoting doesnfool many people. I stated that Natural Expansion does not alter boundries in any significant way. The land being retained by Israel in that 7 percent of the so called "West Bank" does not mirror exact boundries of "Settlement" blocs. It includes plenty of room for expansion, Natural or otherwise.
 
rachamim said:
SpineyNorman: What "Enforced Settlements" are you referring to? As for "Brutal Occupation" you must be joking. Since 1967, when Israel first gained control of those territories male life expectancy has nearly doubled in Gaza (48 to 75) and jumped 20 years in the so called "West Bank." From 1967 to 1993 when Israel oversaw the economy it grew by 25 percent ANNUALLY. Per capita GDP was higher than any surrounding Arab nation, literacy jumped 9 fold, residential electricity jumped from 20 percent to 94 percent, running water mirrored it. Where there was just one highschool for both territories in 1967 but there were hundreds in 1993. From zero universities there were 7. Water availability doubled from 64 million cubic meters annually to 120 million and on and on and on. For the first time "Palestinians" elected their own leaders, policed themselves, controlled their own educational system and religious institutions. Womens Rights were upheld for the first time and yet people such as yourself categorise Israeli administration as brutal.

CNT36: So what if a person wrote "lots of book?." That means that their views are sensibile? Chomsky DOES have to make do but he DOES NOT have to create fast and loose tax shelters to secrete many millions of US Dollars while simultaneously raising his voice in anger at the upper classes for utilising those very same tax shelters. That is known as "hypocrisy" and bespeaks an extremely flawed personality and outlook. Does he count the $12,000 per hour honorariums he receive as "accomodations" as well?
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Yeah, those were humanitarian bombs raining on Gaza the other day, right?

And if the settlements were not backed by a well honed killing machine do you think they'd be tolerated?

And the rest - Isreal's civilizing the barbarians, right? White man's burden? You realise every expansionist colonial power in history has made similar claims to yours, right?
 
rachamim said:
Ruttia: Selectively quoting doesnfool many people. I stated that Natural Expansion does not alter boundries in any significant way. The land being retained by Israel in that 7 percent of the so called "West Bank" does not mirror exact boundries of "Settlement" blocs. It includes plenty of room for expansion, Natural or otherwise.
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'Natural expansion' from what starting point though? What borders/boundaries are you using as a starting point? What about all the other land that Israel has taken control over in Palestine?

The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, has ordered the construction of thousands of new homes in Jewish settlements in the occupied territories in what will be widely interpreted as retaliation for the United Nations vote to recognise a Palestinian state on Thursday.

Israeli officials said the new construction would centre on expanding existing West Bank settlements and more home for Jews in occupied East Jerusalem where the government is imposing demographic changes in order to diminish the proportion of Arab residents. Netanyahu also ordered the advancing of plans for construction to link up Jerusalem with a Jewish settlement, Ma'aleh Adumim, which would have a profound effect on any future Palestinian state based on 1967 borders by cutting deep into the centre of it. The US and Europe have long pressured the Israeli government not to build there.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/30/israel-build-jewish-settlement-un-palestine

Oh and by the way, using words like 'natural' & 'retained' doesn't fool anyone either. I quoted you to highlight just how liberal you are being with the truth. Not sure if you are meaning to be dishonest or you really do believe what you say tbh. Either way it's interesting that you've popped up again after the UN vote yesterday.
 
rachamim said:
SpineyNorman: What "Enforced Settlements" are you referring to? As for "Brutal Occupation" you must be joking. Since 1967, when Israel first gained control of those territories male life expectancy has nearly doubled in Gaza (48 to 75) and jumped 20 years in the so called "West Bank." From 1967 to 1993 when Israel oversaw the economy it grew by 25 percent ANNUALLY. Per capita GDP was higher than any surrounding Arab nation, literacy jumped 9 fold, residential electricity jumped from 20 percent to 94 percent, running water mirrored it. Where there was just one highschool for both territories in 1967 but there were hundreds in 1993. From zero universities there were 7. Water availability doubled from 64 million cubic meters annually to 120 million and on and on and on. For the first time "Palestinians" elected their own leaders, policed themselves, controlled their own educational system and religious institutions. Womens Rights were upheld for the first time and yet people such as yourself categorise Israeli administration as brutal.
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I suppose then you find it terribly sad that all the benefits provided by Israeli occupation have been wiped out by the Israeli blockade.
 
SpineyNorman said:
And if the settlements were not backed by a well honed killing machine do you think they'd be tolerated?
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sadly, israel isn't the only country that has settlements and that. morocco has too in western sahara, and sudan did in the darfur conflict, as does China etc iirc.
 
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