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Israel's apartheid wall - The Guardian

You're making no sense, R18. No sense at all.

That isn't an "ad hom", that's the truth. This is one of your tricks: posts up gobbledegook and then make out that you're being hard done by.
 
Nino: Briefly, before I left, in the "World" forum you challenged me to provide a source showing in wirting hat Mandela founded Spear. I produced the ANC's own archives and have not returned to that thread. The reference was concerning that though.
 
No, you said that Mandela was the "leader" of MK. he wasn't the leader of MK while he was incarcerated. I don't suppose the name of Joe Slovo means much to you.

Do you always find it so difficult to stay on track? You don't even remember what lies you told from one day to the next.
 
Two, I enjoyed the Ha'aretz article but it only proves many things I have stated here for a long time. Israel IS "Withdrawing" from the "WB" although that article is VERY old.


So there "withdrawing" from the West Bank....but funny enough they want to take 8.5% of the entire area....you Isrealis have a funny sense of mathmatics....
 
Nino: "No, Rachamim said Mandela was the leader of Spear. He was not the leader while incracerated...": A normal person would not have TOO much trouble seeing the non-sensical point being raised Nino. I claimed he was the leader, I proved he was the leader, now you argue over his role while inarcerated. I hate to inform you (yeah, right) that his role during imprisonment is a wholly separate issue.

However, since I voluntarily waded into it (i.e. "took the bait") I will again state that whole incracerated he certainly did lead the group, or rather was ONE of its leaders. All ops were signed off by him, in how own words although he and others claim that he renounced (formally) his role in both arms (of the ANC) when convicted. As I must have certainly stated, his stated reasoning was that he did not want the movement to become stale and about incraceration, etc. but rather about a current dynamic (i.e. People of Colour living as sub-humans in S. Africa).

His formal renunciation, and even his admitted private admonishment to certain members of the hierarchy who remained free did not change the very real fact that his approval was absolutely neccessary prior to undertaking aky major armed act. Ergo, he had a whole lot of blood on his hands even after that initial 1 odd year before conviction.

As for "telling lies," I find it very telling that the site has Mods who see fit to ban people over penny ante nonsense while you sit and spew insults on a daily basis. I am a liar? Is THAT character assasination? Too bad I do not agree with others' propensity to censor the opinions of others. CERTAIN members see fit to run to Mods as they repeatedly play PAvlov on the "Report" button, waiting for their sliver of cheese to wiggle down the chute and into their vile little mouths, beady eyes shining in unmitigated joy. Hmmm, makes you think...

Now, IF we can actually get back to the thread I am sure the forum would have a collective sigh of relief as well as exasperation.


Cemerty: Actually, the projected retention will enmcompass no more than 6% and as little as 3%. Why any bit of the so called "WB?" Well, first let me clarify one issue; East Jerusalem was formally annexed by Israel decades ago and within the city boundries Israel does not calculate any part of it as a portion of the so called "WB." Once you cross the formal boundries however you begin caluclating percentages of the so called "WB." This is formally known, in trnslation, as the "Jerusalem Envelope," or lesser known as the "Metropolitan Corridor."

The goal is to consolidate Israel's possesion of the city, as well as encompassing as much of the Jewish population centers in that area. At the same time, there are cultural and religious areas of immense importance to the entire Jewish People. Given the Arabs treatment of these places and of Jews seeking to visit there (prior to Israeli possesion) Israel wishes to secure them. the third consideration is one or two very heavily populated (by Jews) areas outside the Envelope and the Historic sectors.

I akm sure you do not need me to remind you that the English name for the so called "WB" is JUDEA and SAMRIA. To remind the forum, when the Romans destroyed our hold on the land they literally (both physically and figuratively) erased 50 walled cities and 987 villages, all Jewish, in just the Judean section alone.

Only fantasists and propagandists try to deny the irrefutable Jewish connection that lkand. While it is sadly neccessary to be pragmatic and offer it up for Arabs to create their 25th (or 26th is Gaza remains a separate entity as seems to be the case) Arab Nation in existence, it does not mean that Jews will simply act like Arabs and pretend they never dwelled there.

The really ironic thing though is that people such as yourself could even question Jews seeking to retain a miniscule portion like 6% or even your quoted 8 odd percent given that no other People in history has ever willed their entire homeland to an alien People so that they maight be more comfprtable and secure!People should be applauding the Jews for their generoisity and openheartedness in this affair.

Qumran is Arab now? Ma'sa'dah? Herodium? Cave of the Patriarchs? Shiloh?Bet'l'chem (you probably thought it was an Arab name)? Hebron? Do you even know the Arab name of that city? al Khalil! Arabs do not even use it outside of their propaganda sheets! And yet we Jews have been willing to give up this precious land for almost 100 years , while Arabs have done nothing but refuse offer after offer, after offer...

"It is about OCCUPATION..." "Arabs want the Greenline..." IT IS ALL PROPAGANDA.
 
[...]As for "telling lies," I find it very telling that the site has Mods who see fit to ban people over penny ante nonsense while you sit and spew insults on a daily basis. I am a liar? Is THAT character assasination? Too bad I do not agree with others' propensity to censor the opinions of others. CERTAIN members see fit to run to Mods as they repeatedly play PAvlov on the "Report" button, waiting for their sliver of cheese to wiggle down the chute and into their vile little mouths, beady eyes shining in unmitigated joy. Hmmm, makes you think...[...]

More of the same: accusations of "character assassination" and the usual rant about "CERTAIN" members...tut tut.
 
TP: What are you talking about? Ever hear of the Ross Plan? You can even go to the very first offer, the Brit 1919 Plan! At THAT time "Mandated Palestine" included all of the country now called Jordan. Arabs were offered 70% of that total landmass. Imagine Gaza, "WB" AND JORDAN!!! They refused it!!! Jerusalem was going to be Internationalised under the custody of an International Force to be created by the League of Nations! THEY REFUSED IT. Within that 70% by the way, lay more than 60% of all arable land in the Mandate and that of course included a good many hectares reclaimed (from barren destert due to Arab and Turkish neglect) from desert! THEY REFUSED IT!

You have the audacity to punch up some propganda font (Gush Shalom is a Bloc of Peacenik groups, shirkers and subversives who would abandon the land of their People willingly, trash of the Earth) spouting nonsense about Barak's delusions and have not even touched upon the REAL offers! ARABS WANT ALL THE LAND.

The vast majority of Arabs are Muslim (majority, NOT all so all the yammering haters can take it easy for a spell). Islam adopted Roman doctrine in that any land held by Islam even for a second was ever after Islamic Land. Since Muslims under Omar conquered the entire land, the entire land must revert to Islamic and Arab hands. There is no room for coexistence.

Only the Jews have been foolish enough to continuously strive for coexistence! Not only coexistence but offering up the lion's share of their own homeland to boot! Countless Jews have been martyred for Judea and Samaria and now we offer it with a bow and beg them to take it...yet we are "occupiers" and "oppressors." Only Jews form "Peace Groups" and walk around in their doe eyed naievete and innocence imagining that their "peace offerings" will earn them the friendship of their Arab cousins. What utter nonsense.
 
Nino: "No, Rachamim said Mandela was the leader of Spear. He was not the leader while incracerated...": A normal person would not have TOO much trouble seeing the non-sensical point being raised Nino. I claimed he was the leader, I proved he was the leader, now you argue over his role while inarcerated. I hate to inform you (yeah, right) that his role during imprisonment is a wholly separate issue.

However, since I voluntarily waded into it (i.e. "took the bait") I will again state that whole incracerated he certainly did lead the group, or rather was ONE of its leaders. All ops were signed off by him, in how own words although he and others claim that he renounced (formally) his role in both arms (of the ANC) when convicted. As I must have certainly stated, his stated reasoning was that he did not want the movement to become stale and about incraceration, etc. but rather about a current dynamic (i.e. People of Colour living as sub-humans in S. Africa).

His formal renunciation, and even his admitted private admonishment to certain members of the hierarchy who remained free did not change the very real fact that his approval was absolutely neccessary prior to undertaking aky major armed act. Ergo, he had a whole lot of blood on his hands even after that initial 1 odd year before conviction.

What I find odd about your position is that you seem to think that some struggles have a greater value than others. In the case of the struggle against the apartheid system, you seem to think that merely sitting back and waiting for things to change would have been preferable to resistance. Presumably the the widespread resistance to the Pass Laws would have also been met with disapproval? Then there is also the issue of state brutality. Presumably this too, should have been met with a turning of the cheek?

Your analysis of Mandela and of the resistance to apartheid suggests a particular discourse that was promoted and supported by those who sported "Hang Mandela" T shirts in the 80's. It is a discourse that enjoys a symbiotic relationship with Israel's [unquestioning] support of the SA's National Party regime.

I doubt you would allow yourself to be brutalised by the state because of your ethnicity. Yet you would advocate this form of response to others.
 
TP: What are you talking about? Ever hear of the Ross Plan? You can even go to the very first offer, the Brit 1919 Plan! At THAT time "Mandated Palestine" included all of the country now called Jordan. Arabs were offered 70% of that total landmass. Imagine Gaza, "WB" AND JORDAN!!! They refused it!!! Jerusalem was going to be Internationalised under the custody of an International Force to be created by the League of Nations! THEY REFUSED IT. Within that 70% by the way, lay more than 60% of all arable land in the Mandate and that of course included a good many hectares reclaimed (from barren destert due to Arab and Turkish neglect) from desert! THEY REFUSED IT!

You have the audacity to punch up some propganda font (Gush Shalom is a Bloc of Peacenik groups, shirkers and subversives who would abandon the land of their People willingly, trash of the Earth) spouting nonsense about Barak's delusions and have not even touched upon the REAL offers! ARABS WANT ALL THE LAND.

The vast majority of Arabs are Muslim (majority, NOT all so all the yammering haters can take it easy for a spell). Islam adopted Roman doctrine in that any land held by Islam even for a second was ever after Islamic Land. Since Muslims under Omar conquered the entire land, the entire land must revert to Islamic and Arab hands. There is no room for coexistence.

Only the Jews have been foolish enough to continuously strive for coexistence! Not only coexistence but offering up the lion's share of their own homeland to boot! Countless Jews have been martyred for Judea and Samaria and now we offer it with a bow and beg them to take it...yet we are "occupiers" and "oppressors." Only Jews form "Peace Groups" and walk around in their doe eyed naievete and innocence imagining that their "peace offerings" will earn them the friendship of their Arab cousins. What utter nonsense.
Please spare us the 2,000 year old quasi-religious land ownership claims. We are talking about modern day Palestine and Israel, not who happened to live in the land 20-something centuries ago
 
TP: What are you talking about? Ever hear of the Ross Plan? You can even go to the very first offer, the Brit 1919 Plan! At THAT time "Mandated Palestine" included all of the country now called Jordan. Arabs were offered 70% of that total landmass. Imagine Gaza, "WB" AND JORDAN!!! They refused it!!! Jerusalem was going to be Internationalised under the custody of an International Force to be created by the League of Nations! THEY REFUSED IT. Within that 70% by the way, lay more than 60% of all arable land in the Mandate and that of course included a good many hectares reclaimed (from barren destert due to Arab and Turkish neglect) from desert! THEY REFUSED IT!
What 1919 offer was this? Link please
 
You have the audacity to punch up some propganda font (Gush Shalom is a Bloc of Peacenik groups, shirkers and subversives who would abandon the land of their People willingly, trash of the Earth)
LOL :D I was waiting for this. I'm only surprised they're not communists or neo-nazis.

Rachamim never engages with the issue raised. He only smears the source
 
LOL :D I was waiting for this. I'm only surprised they're not communists or neo-nazis.

Rachamim never engages with the issue raised. He only smears the source
Innit. It appears to be an integral part of his debating strategy: treate favourable sources as reputable and the final truth, dismiss disfavourable ones as Jew-hating propaganda.

You could argue about just about anything and happily pretend you're in the right couldn't you :D
 
Nino: "Rachamim is not even handed when it comes to 'struggles' {sic}, believeing some to be more worthy than others.": Well of course Nino, that is a pretty ridiculous statement on the face of it. If one is struggling say, for the right to pedophelia like NAMBLA, that should be abhorred to no end. On the other hand, the US struggle for Civil Rights a la MLK was highly admirable.


"In the case of Aparthied Rachamim seems to think it was better to sit back and not resist.": "Resistance" can certainly be passive and non-violent...as in say...the ANC pre Mandela 1960? Violent Resistance is enshrined in International Law when it is a National Resistance but for it to take place there must first be a national entity. In other words, "Palestinians" have no right to resist since they have never had a nation. What are the resisting? Jews? Zionism? Their own statehood?

In addition, International Law expressly forbids the use of terrorism. Contrary to what some fantasists imagine International Law does expressly address what does and does not constitute terrorism to a very high degree. A recent argument made in this forum stated that since IHL does not specifically define "terrorism," although it DOES certainly define specific terrorist acts, one cannot claim that terrorism is absolutely illegal. NONSENSE. If one partakes in one of those specifically defined acts they can rest assured that have made themselves vulnerable to prosecution if only in theory thanks to the pussyfooting International Community.

People of Colour in S. Africa surely had the right to fight for their right to full and equal civil rights if not for actual self determination (which is another altogether separate and very debatable subject that I will not tangle with now). Had they relegated their violence to governtmental, i.e. Internationally Legal Targets, I and many others would be lauding the ANC in its entirety. Instead they chose, under the influence of Mandela, to take their "struggle" to the streets of the cities and towns of S. Africa and in that vein managed to inflict irreprable hurt and damage to untold numbers of S. Africans of every colour and creed.

Attacking an Army Base is quite different from attacking a pub, or setting a car bomb in a downtown street.


"Should state brutality be met with the turning of the other cheek?": One must first find a consensus for the definition of state sponsored brutality. If you argue that a Security Barrier conssiting of 97% chainlink that has led to a 90 odd percent drop in attacks is brutal just by existing, or by causing a 20 minute wait to transit it, I will argue that the public benefit outweighs the brutality by an extremely large measure. If you argue that building villages on publicly owned land in an area where only the ancestors of those villagers have ever held sovereignity, I will argue you make no sense. See Nino, you have to be a tad bit more specific.


"Hang Mandela tshirts.": I think it would certainly be fitting justice. I am sure that if you asked the people he left widowed or parentless that they too might echo the sentiment. I also feel he has the absolutel right to due process which is a heck of alot more than he EVER offered the victims of his orchestrated brutality.


"Symbiotic relationship with Israeli Govt. support of Apartheid Era S. Africa.": Not at all Nino. Israeli support was tactical rather than ideological. Israel of course is a multi-coloured society. Indeed, most of us are darker than white so to suggest an ideological sympathy is ridiculous.

I still remember being examined by COs for our physical appearance whenever deployed as Advisors, Observers, or simply as students. In my case it was former Rhodesia but I had mates that went to S. Africa and in fact Rhodesia was a bit worse than S. Africa in terms of racism. I never met a single Israeli, in the govt. or out who ever liked what Apartheid or that govt. did but tactical alliances are based on need, not so much desire or shared ideals.

You are correct, I would NOT allow anyone or anything to brutalise me for my ethnicity or indeed ANY reason but then I do not find Checkpoints and ID Checks to be brutal. You know, over on Mindanao there is a Checkpoint in every direction, every few klicks. I gladly transit them, if a bit on edge in case govt. forces have been replaced by the guerillas or bandits. I do not mind the legitmate checks and feel they add to the public's sense of security if not in reality (in Israel they are actually real factors in the battle against terror, too bad it is not true everywhere but then most nations do not devote so much of their GNP towards defence related issues).
 
TP: "It is not important who lived on that land 2000 years ago.": But indeed it is. See, right to exists there is in question. What defines this right? Legal decisons? The UN Ratified Israel's Existence in 1947.

Establishment of infrastructure and a viable economy? Israel had the former in a recognisable sense in the very late 19th Century CE/AD and the latter a couple of decades before Indepandance in 1948.

The willingness to kill and die for it? We have done that for eons.

First dibs as they say back in NYC? Well then that exact argument you so haughtily dismiss is perfectly in order is it not? Of course Israel wins there hands down.

Spion: Actually Gush Shalom is mostly communist organisations and if you had been to the nation you would know this. Sad Spion, very sad. Of course I would imagine you DO actually know this given your ideology so perhaps you are only presenting this dismissive facade as an argumentive tool.

"Link please.": Suuuuure. You are living in the UK, if anyone can find it with ease it would be you. If you cannot locate it online, hoof it to the nearest library...or take a trolley, it is all the same for me. Why do you imagine everyone finds things out on the internet, or that I would care to do it for you? True, if I am in the mood for the latest on Britney or Bush's family actually being extra-terrestial then by all means I surf the Net but if it is solid info and historical documentation I tend to frequent harcopy libraries when possible, or otherwise buy the book.

IF you truly have difficulty you can always look for the Ross Plan. Given its provenance you should find IT in a snap.

In actuality it (the 1919 Plan) is officially dated 1921, because San Remo of course took place in 1920. Prior to San Remo there was a flurry of activity in the region with everyone and anyone trying to make moves. You had the Husseini-Weizmann Plan AKA "Feisal-Weizmann", you had the King-Crane Commission, King-Crane with Syrian Congressional Modifications came next, which was mostly Pres. Wilson and his anti-Zionist garbage and the heavy demands of the Syrians which of course at the time meant "Palestinians" as well, and then the Brits trying to play both sides of the fence behind the scenes. The 1919 Plan was one made to both sides at the same time , first in 1919...

Then officially in 1921 so that they could take the Refusal and create Trans-Jordan for the Hashemites who were crawling up the bu^ with aggravation after meeting the Brits' needs in WWI and being denied the promised payoff. In the end they got 2 whole kingdoms so they managed ok.


To be honest, I cannot even tell you officialy off the top of the head how many offers were made over all between 1919 and 2008 to both sides but if you count offers made from all parties (central and non), there are at least 114. NONE have EVER been accepted by the "Palestinians." Zionists and then Israel accepted all major offers, including the 1st one which put them at a distinct disadvantage. The poor early Zionists were so overjoyed at the prospect of regianing sovereignity in their ancestral homeland that they practically agreed to any demands...and the amazing thing is that the ladership was absolutely sincere. Yet they were never made to see the error of their ways since Arabs never let a state come to fruition (until of course 1949 and even then only in a de facto sense and not actual acquisence)
 
TP: "It is not important who lived on that land 2000 years ago.": But indeed it is. See, right to exists there is in question. What defines this right? Legal decisons? The UN Ratified Israel's Existence in 1947.
The UN did not ratify and most definitely does not approve of the subsequent land grab of 1967, so if we're going by that you will agree you need to withdraw in full to those borders.

Please note that I'm not arguing for Israel to cease to exist. Even though I think the Palestinians have been hard done by, I'd be happy for the two States to exist as per existing pre Six Day War borders. I know you feel hard done by in not having full posession of what you see as your land, but realistically both sides will have to compromise. But not once since 67 has Israel offered to withdraw in full to those borders (in return for full peace etc).

The continuation of the settlements is by far the biggest obstacle to peace, and for as long as Israel insists on being present in those areas there will be conflict.
 
Nino: "Rachamim is not even handed when it comes to 'struggles' {sic}, believeing some to be more worthy than others.": Well of course Nino, that is a pretty ridiculous statement on the face of it. If one is struggling say, for the right to pedophelia like NAMBLA, that should be abhorred to no end. On the other hand, the US struggle for Civil Rights a la MLK was highly admirable.


"In the case of Aparthied Rachamim seems to think it was better to sit back and not resist.": "Resistance" can certainly be passive and non-violent...as in say...the ANC pre Mandela 1960? Violent Resistance is enshrined in International Law when it is a National Resistance but for it to take place there must first be a national entity. In other words, "Palestinians" have no right to resist since they have never had a nation. What are the resisting? Jews? Zionism? Their own statehood?

In addition, International Law expressly forbids the use of terrorism. Contrary to what some fantasists imagine International Law does expressly address what does and does not constitute terrorism to a very high degree. A recent argument made in this forum stated that since IHL does not specifically define "terrorism," although it DOES certainly define specific terrorist acts, one cannot claim that terrorism is absolutely illegal. NONSENSE. If one partakes in one of those specifically defined acts they can rest assured that have made themselves vulnerable to prosecution if only in theory thanks to the pussyfooting International Community.

People of Colour in S. Africa surely had the right to fight for their right to full and equal civil rights if not for actual self determination (which is another altogether separate and very debatable subject that I will not tangle with now). Had they relegated their violence to governtmental, i.e. Internationally Legal Targets, I and many others would be lauding the ANC in its entirety. Instead they chose, under the influence of Mandela, to take their "struggle" to the streets of the cities and towns of S. Africa and in that vein managed to inflict irreprable hurt and damage to untold numbers of S. Africans of every colour and creed.

Attacking an Army Base is quite different from attacking a pub, or setting a car bomb in a downtown street.


"Should state brutality be met with the turning of the other cheek?": One must first find a consensus for the definition of state sponsored brutality. If you argue that a Security Barrier conssiting of 97% chainlink that has led to a 90 odd percent drop in attacks is brutal just by existing, or by causing a 20 minute wait to transit it, I will argue that the public benefit outweighs the brutality by an extremely large measure. If you argue that building villages on publicly owned land in an area where only the ancestors of those villagers have ever held sovereignity, I will argue you make no sense. See Nino, you have to be a tad bit more specific.


"Hang Mandela tshirts.": I think it would certainly be fitting justice. I am sure that if you asked the people he left widowed or parentless that they too might echo the sentiment. I also feel he has the absolutel right to due process which is a heck of alot more than he EVER offered the victims of his orchestrated brutality.


"Symbiotic relationship with Israeli Govt. support of Apartheid Era S. Africa.": Not at all Nino. Israeli support was tactical rather than ideological. Israel of course is a multi-coloured society. Indeed, most of us are darker than white so to suggest an ideological sympathy is ridiculous.

I still remember being examined by COs for our physical appearance whenever deployed as Advisors, Observers, or simply as students. In my case it was former Rhodesia but I had mates that went to S. Africa and in fact Rhodesia was a bit worse than S. Africa in terms of racism. I never met a single Israeli, in the govt. or out who ever liked what Apartheid or that govt. did but tactical alliances are based on need, not so much desire or shared ideals.

You are correct, I would NOT allow anyone or anything to brutalise me for my ethnicity or indeed ANY reason but then I do not find Checkpoints and ID Checks to be brutal. You know, over on Mindanao there is a Checkpoint in every direction, every few klicks. I gladly transit them, if a bit on edge in case govt. forces have been replaced by the guerillas or bandits. I do not mind the legitmate checks and feel they add to the public's sense of security if not in reality (in Israel they are actually real factors in the battle against terror, too bad it is not true everywhere but then most nations do not devote so much of their GNP towards defence related issues).

You think that by posting up rambling (not to mention racist) 1,000+ word essays that you will impress me or convince soi-disant neutrals that you are responding in a honest fashion. This essay is completely unnecessary as it merely repeats the vile racist crap that you've come out with recently. Furthermore your revisionist tendencies are not limited to Zionism but they also include historical revisions: Mandela is an evil monster who killed innocent civilians and the resistance against apartheid was wrong - Blacks, Asians and Coloureds should have simply taken it all lying down.

You disgust me and no 1000 word essay will ever make up for your patent lack of compassion.
 
"Hang Mandela tshirts.": I think it would certainly be fitting justice. I am sure that if you asked the people he left widowed or parentless that they too might echo the sentiment. I also feel he has the absolutel right to due process which is a heck of alot more than he EVER offered the victims of his orchestrated brutality.
Speaks volumes of your own bloodlust and vile politics that you want to see one of the world's greatest advocates of peace hanging from the yard arm.
 
"Hang Mandela tshirts.": I think it would certainly be fitting justice. I am sure that if you asked the people he left widowed or parentless that they too might echo the sentiment. I also feel he has the absolutel right to due process which is a heck of alot more than he EVER offered the victims of his orchestrated brutality.

We need a Rachamim quotes archive.

This one, with the one about Hitler doing god's work, are two that immediately sriing to mind.
 
Seconded. This could bring a whole new perspective to the term 'Blowback'.

I seem to remember him saying something about a palestinian death as 'an arab getting what he deserved' and who can forget his support/admiration of facistic regimes. The absolute classic for me was that there was no evidence that any arab deaths had been caused by the IDF-now if anything sums him up that for me was it.
 
Idaho thinks Israel should be disbanded.": OK, thanks for sharing. And? What is your alternaitve? Jews should not have their own nations? Only Arabs should? ALL nations should be erased?

yes all 'nations' and 'nationalism' should be erased .. ffs have you not learnt from the nazi experiment?? all nationalism is exclusive and ends up judging and seperating and alienating and segregating .. i entirely understand why jews in europe and later africa and the arabia wanted 'their own country' a home BUT it can never ever work .. and particularly in an area like this where muslims and christians of many backgrounds ALL claim some origin .. a jewish state will always be at war .. a muslim state will always be at war .. a christian state will always be a war .. etc etc etc .. no doubt you will say but what of the geman jews who assimilated .. BUT the point was we / they failed to destroy the evil that is nationalism .. do you wnat 'the jews' to forever be facing annilhalation?
 
:eek: Did he really say this?

Can you point me towards the post?

Here it is-although I have slightly misquoted. My memory isn't what it used to be :(

However I'm not far off the mark and you get the gist of his consistent apologist stance for the actions of the Israeli state:

In fact, most cases where Arab non-combatants [and the occaisonal foreigner] are shot, there is absolutely no conclusive proof that Israel was the culprit.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5258814&postcount=6
 
.....particularly in an area like this where muslims and christians of many backgrounds ALL claim some origin .. a jewish state will always be at war .. a muslim state will always be at war .. a christian state will always be a war ....

I completely agree with this although I'm not sure it supports your "no nations" position. To me it simply means that there will always be war in the region.


I think what he means is that the Palestinians very rarely release the bodies for an independent post mortem so there's no "conclusive proof" that Israel was the culprit.

That of course, doesn't mean that Israel didn't kill them though.
 
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