Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[WhyLikeThis]

They're just agreeing with the evidence that the the IDF presented showing Hamas are using hospitals. They're a NGO of Israeli doctors called Doctors for the Rights of Israeli Soldiers, so hardly a surprise they're pro-the current military attacks.

What ratio of dead children to 1 Hamas fighter is your limit? Assuming you have one.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They're just agreeing with the evidence that the the IDF presented showing Hamas are using hospitals. They're a NGO of Israeli doctors called Doctors for the Rights of Israeli Soldiers, so hardly a surprise they're pro-the current military attacks.



You can think they're wrong or disagree with their statement, but the oath is not relevant, it's about doing best for their patients not being a pacifist or similar.

This is probably not your intention but you come across as an apologist . It is seriously fucked up when anyone advocates this. Fuck those fucking genocidal doctors.

 

[krtek a houby]

Tlaib calls out genocide in Gaza, and is accused of being genocidal and antisemitic - the latter accusation from MTG.

Rashida Tlaib's claims of genocide in Gaza draw bipartisan ire

Republicans introduce two motions to punish the lone Palestinian American member in the US Congress.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

Here's another reported figure this time from ActionAid

"More than half a million people in northern Gaza face death by starvation as food supplies run “perilously” low, an international charity has warned.
In a statement on Monday, ActionAid said that a “near-total depletion” of food and water supplies is endangering the lives of civilians trapped in northern Gaza who have barely survived nearly a month of intense bombardment.
Riham Jafari, coordinator of advocacy and communication for ActionAid Palestine, said:
"Cases of dehydration and malnutrition are increasing rapidly. Hospitals, which have remained over capacity for weeks on end, can offer no solace to those on the brink of starvation as medical supplies run low, fuel is scarce, and bombs are indiscriminately dropped across Gaza including on the footsteps of hospitals."

and if you flee south and are lucky to get in a UN shelter:

"One UN official at a compound in the southern city of Khan Younis told the Guardian on Monday night:
It is a terrible, terrible situation. There is no room even to sleep on the floor. There is one toilet for 700 or 800 people. No bread, no stoves for cooking. We are drinking irrigation water."

 

[two sheds]

Thought this was interesting from ahem Bluesky which I just been given a link to

Hacker collectives take sides in the Mideast crisis

Telegram feeds of hacker groups document alleged attacks targeting Israel

dfrlab.org

 

[Wilf]

No, because the oath is nothing to do with this. If they were suggesting their patients not get the best care because they were Hamas fighters then it would be. But it's not about their patients at all.

You can argue it's immoral or terrible politics by all means, but it's nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath (which is not legally binding and not all doctors take anyway).



There is no general 'do no harm' principle for medical staff to people that aren't their patients though (and is much nore complex than that anyway), so yes, it might seem pedantic, but tieing this into the Hippocratic Oath is just nonsense and there's no need to try and invent connections to discredit something when actual better reasons exist.

Not really sure why you are feeling the need to dig into this. I took it that the reference to the Oath related to this story was a moment of almost black comedy, an illustration of the insanity and obscenity of doctors calling for the bombing of hospitals. Yes, we know that the Oath is about medics own patients, but reference to the oath is a shorthand description for a major aspect of medical ethics. And these are doctors, making their claims as a group of doctors, calling for the bombing of (other people's) hospitals.

 

[Raheem]

I've looked into this, and if a doctor strangles your children and eats your liver while you are still alive, it is not technically a breach of the Hippocratic oath, and therefore fine, so long as you have not paid them.

 

[Rob Ray]

This is probably not your intention but you come across as an apologist .

He's describing what position they're coming from not suggesting they're right or justified, so I don't see where you're getting "apologism" from tbh.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Starmer won't issue a call for a ceasefire in Gaza but apparently he is in favour of Anthony Blinken's proposal for "humanitarian -pauses" to allow aid in.How does that make any kind of sense?What does it mean?Is the suggestion that the F16s circle around a bit while a convoy of trucks rumbles into Gaza and then resumes the blitzkrieg just as before? The man seems to be an utter cunt!

Seems to be?

 

[LDC]

They're not 'just doctors', they're 'Doctors for the Rights of Israeli Soldiers'. Saying they're just doctors 'breaking' the oath completely misrepresents and downplays them and their politics and position. Getting facts right and arguments robust in these situations is important, people seeing anything that's not wildly partisan as apologism is just bonkers and completely problematic. It's a similar mentality to those who call the people explaining some of the history and context pre-the 7th Hamas attacks as Hamas apologists.

Anyway, I'll leave it, as I think some other people should as well.

 

[kabbes]

The problem with using the epithet of “antisemitic” to attack anybody criticising Israel, including criticism of things like the indiscriminate bombing of hospitals and refugee camps, is that you force people into a choice. They have to decide what they want to avoid more — the label or the acts. They may think, “If it is antisemitic to criticise hospital bombing then maybe I’m antisemitic”. And at that point you’ve sent them down a rabbit hole you really don’t want. So it’s a dangerous game for Israel or anyone else to persist in using “antisemitic” in this way.

 

[Duncan2]

No doubt the good doctors letter was in Hebrew.Otherwise it might be instructive to read the text of the letter and see the signatories.

 

[ska invita]

It's official Israel is going to permanently occupy the territory of Northern Gaza using "indefinite" "security responsibility" as the excuse, the same justification used for very every other attrocity inflicted on Palestinians. Should be a surprise to no one

I'd say it was just Netanyahu & co but it's clearly a position supported by the significant majority within Israeli society

 

[krtek a houby]

It's official Israel is going to permanently occupy the already occupied territory of Northern Gaza using "security responsibility" as the excuse, the same justification used for very every other attrocity inflicted on Palestinians.

I'd say it was just Netanyahu but it's clearly a position supported by the significant majority within Israeli society

Probably the hard right elements of the coalition, and the civilian far right fanatics are delighted with it. But there's a lot of division within in Israeli society, isnt there? Not just against Netanhyahu and the coalition.

 

[ska invita]

Probably the hard right elements of the coalition, and the civilian far right fanatics are delighted with it. But there's a lot of division within in Israeli society, isnt there? Not just against Netanhyahu and the coalition.

There is but from what I can tell the anti Netanyahu sentiment is centred on having let the Hamas massacre happen on his watch (plus corruption , plus the attempt to disempower the judiciary), not about ethnically cleansing Palestinians

 

[Pickman's model]

There is but from what I can tell the anti Netanyahu sentiment is centred on having let the Hamas massacre happen on his watch (plus corruption , plus the attempt to disempower the judiciary), not about ethically cleansing Palestinians

The zionists have no basis for ethical cleansing, they're perhaps the least ethical people in the region

 

[ska invita]

The zionists have no basis for ethical cleansing, they're perhaps the least ethical people in the region

not had a tea yet, spelling worse than usual

 

[Kid_Eternity]

 

[Cid]

Try this: 'From Newsnight, Nov 6, twitter clip of Sharone Lifschitz (daughter of released hostage, fine art/film lecturer at UEL) describing visiting the kibbutz her parents were taken from.' Then, y'know, add your opinion. e.g 'Find her ability to see that revenge is not the route forward, despite (iirc) her father still being a hostage, very powerful'.

 

[Ranbay]

Not sure if posted, but from 27 mins onwards is a good listen.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Try this: 'From Newsnight, Nov 6, twitter clip of Sharone Lifschitz (daughter of released hostage, fine art/film lecturer at UEL) describing visiting the kibbutz her parents were taken from.' Then, y'know, add your opinion. e.g 'Find her ability to see that revenge is not the route forward, despite (iirc) her father still being a hostage, very powerful'.

Lol when did the self evident need spelling out?

 

[ska invita]

Not sure if posted, but from 27 mins onwards is a good listen.

why what is it?

 

[Cid]

Lol when did the self evident need spelling out?

When people stopped using twitter and/or had accessibility requirements Mr Communications.

 

[ska invita]

if theres sod all food coming in via the rafah gate in the south forget about it if you're in annexed northern gaza especially once IDF properly move in and start gunning everyone down
"humanitarian corridor" south opened again (apart from when its bombed)....feels like the last chance to get out before a massacre.
I can understand why people are staying

 

[Ranbay]

why what is it?

It's called a podcast

 

[The39thStep]

Unless I've been taken for a ride, and lets face it you never know these days, this piece of 'satire' was posted by the official Twitter account of the Israeli State

 

[Kid_Eternity]

When people stopped using twitter and/or had accessibility requirements Mr Communications.

Christ you’re inane…

 

[Idris2002]

I can't think of a more terrible cruelty than letting people die of thirst. You're desperate, so you drink unsafe water. You get sick with diarrhoea and vomiting, but the treatment for that is simple; replacement electrolytes and plenty of water. Oh wait, there's no clean water. And no fuel to even boil unclean water. Children will be the most vulnerable.

Meanwhile in Israel, there are golf courses and lawn sprinklers.

I definitely remember during the hunger strikes in 80/81 there were prisoners who went on thirst strike as well. It was bad.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

They're not 'just doctors', they're 'Doctors for the Rights of Israeli Soldiers'. Saying they're just doctors 'breaking' the oath completely misrepresents and downplays them and their politics and position. Getting facts right and arguments robust in these situations is important, people seeing anything that's not wildly partisan as apologism is just bonkers and completely problematic. It's a similar mentality to those who call the people explaining some of the history and context pre-the 7th Hamas attacks as Hamas apologists.

Anyway, I'll leave it, as I think some other people should as well.

I agree: if they just called themselves ‘Doctors For Genocide’ there would be no confusion at all…

 

[Idris2002]

They're just agreeing with the evidence that the the IDF presented showing Hamas are using hospitals. They're a NGO of Israeli doctors called Doctors for the Rights of Israeli Soldiers, so hardly a surprise they're pro-the current military attacks.



You can think they're wrong or disagree with their statement, but the oath is not relevant, it's about doing best for their patients not being a pacifist or similar.

I don't agree. Implied in the oath is a duty to uphold the ethical basis of medicine as a whole, not just to do their best as individual doctors. These wankers are openly cheering on the war crimes involved in bombing hospitals.