Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
On Israel losing support.
At UN support for Israel by countries like US and UK hasn't diminished.
www.aljazeera.com
The UN general assembly voted to support the ICJ ruling that Israel occupation of West Bank is illegal. That Israel must pull out and pay reparations.
US voted against. UK abstained. According to Al Jazeera TV UK thought the proposal was one sided.
My point is Netanyahu and whoever follows him know that when it comes to the crunch Israel supporters will stick up for Israel despite what it does.
The ICJ has ruled on the occupation and my country has decided not to support the ruling.
I think Netanyahu and his even more right wing Zionists in his government are taking risks but when it comes to it Israel always gets support from where it matters.
At UN support for Israel by countries like US and UK hasn't diminished.
UN General Assembly overwhelmingly calls for end of Israeli occupation
United Nations demands an end to Israel’s illegal presence in the Palestinian territories within 12 months.
The UN general assembly voted to support the ICJ ruling that Israel occupation of West Bank is illegal. That Israel must pull out and pay reparations.
US voted against. UK abstained. According to Al Jazeera TV UK thought the proposal was one sided.
My point is Netanyahu and whoever follows him know that when it comes to the crunch Israel supporters will stick up for Israel despite what it does.
The ICJ has ruled on the occupation and my country has decided not to support the ruling.
I think Netanyahu and his even more right wing Zionists in his government are taking risks but when it comes to it Israel always gets support from where it matters.
Bingoman
Well-Known Member
So Israel strike first?
news.sky.com
Sky's John Sparks hears 'sonic boom' during live report in Beirut
There has been a "very loud sound" as jets fly low over the Lebanese capital Beirut during Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah's speech, international correspondent John Sparks says.
Skinny Ethel
Well-Known Member
Turned out nice again. Defend adolf netanyahu at all cost.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Adolf?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
UN accuses Israel of ‘massive’ violation of child rights treaty in Gaza
UN committee says horrific impact on children from Israel’s war on Gaza will have an ‘extremely dark place in history’.
Israel has signed up to this UN rights of children. It says this does not apply to Gaza.
Another violation of human rights to add to list of those Israel has broken.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Speaking of new violations, I see the most moral army in the world has been caught pushing / kicking multiple people (hopefully already dead) off of buildings:
news.sky.com
IDF confirms 'review' after Israeli soldiers filmed pushing 'lifeless bodies from roofs' in West Bank raid
The IDF said the incident is "under review," calling it "a serious incident that does not coincide with IDF values and the expectations from IDF soldiers".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They're as post-heroic as they comeSpeaking of new violations, I see the most moral army in the world has been caught pushing / kicking multiple people (hopefully already dead) off of buildings:
IDF confirms 'review' after Israeli soldiers filmed pushing 'lifeless bodies from roofs' in West Bank raid
The IDF said the incident is "under review," calling it "a serious incident that does not coincide with IDF values and the expectations from IDF soldiers".
"Aug 15 (Reuters) - Palestinian health authorities say Israel's ground and air campaign in Gaza has killed more than 40,000 people, mostly civilians, and driven most of the enclave's 2.3 million people from their homes."
VS
"Hamas militants killed more than 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and took 253 into captivity in Gaza".
No moral high ground at all.
Just a one sided massive death toll for those living in an apartheid state.
No matter what the politics are...this is not "acting in kind" . This is an occupying force stealing land, forcing Palestinians out of their homes and land, killing at an extraordinary rate, 15000 minors dead. 40000 Palestinians dead. 200000 injured badly...
So much for an eye for an eye. It's more like 20 eyes for an eye.
You seem to think anyone criticising Israel is automatically pro Hamas.
Posters can criticise Israeli actions without actively supporting Hamas. Its not as black and white as you present.
I have not seen that?... Just people who see that Israel is committing genocide with an added side of land grabbing as they go. Forcing Palestinians out of their homes? Blowing up entire schools? Because "We think Hamas was in a classroom". I mean the Israelis are sophisticated enough to pinpoint individuals and take them out. Even pinpointing 2000 Pagers to blow up Hezbollah members. But they can just carpet bomb entire swathes of Gaza...because they can't be arsed to actually selectively kill their "enemy"? And Israel justifies that by implying the children were probably going to become Hamas if they grew up.
Seriously Spymaster..if you were a young person growing up in Gaza what would you want? Would you believe that Israel was doing its best to make peace with you?
Not just Irish Republicans. Many many Irish people not connected with Republicanism at all still view the shoot to kill policy of the British army and SAS in relation to NI as wrong.
Because every time the British Army killed someone it caused a shitload of violence in the aftermath. Gibraltar was no exception with 3 more killed by Michael Stone at the funerals of the three volunteers. And 2 soldiers later beaten and shot dead after they drove into crowds at the funeral in some mad attempt to hurt people...
Getting back to Gibraltar...Because the 3 who were shot were unarmed and shot dead at close quarters..with their hands up.. The SAS would have had the time to arrest instead of shooting them dead.
SAS shot the IRA members without any prior attempt to arrest them.
Eye witness evidence directly contradicted the official version of events and backed up ongoing claims from republicans that British forces were operating a 'shoot-to-kill' policy.
Carmen Proetta, a Gibraltarian lady who witnessed the shootings first hand, said that the IRA personnel were unarmed and holding their hands up when they were shot.
She was subsequently targeted by some British newspapers in a smear campaign that made false allegations, such as a claim that she was a former prostitute.
The Sun newspaper carried the infamous headline 'The Tart of Gib'. She later successfully pursued media organisations in a number of libel actions.
Two days after the shooting, the Irish Government issued a statement saying it was "gravely perturbed that three unarmed Irish people were shot dead in Gibraltar when they could have been arrested by the security forces involved". 16 SAS officers surely could have arrested them but no. They shot them at very close range.
And later in 1995, the families of the three IRA members took a case to the European Court of Human Rights, which found that their human right to life had been infringed and the European Court of Human Rights, which decided that the operation had been in violation of the European Convention on Human Rights.
So there is that....
I am surprised that you are surprised...considering you have stated that you have studied so much of this ...its not exactly rocket science.
British soldiers had a shoot to kill policy when it came to NI and anyone they believed was republican paramilitary.
Most Irish people believed the British army and PSNI were corrrupt and that they would never receive fair treatment. That belief didnt appear out of nothing. It was arrived at after years of intimidation and blatant unfair treatment.
a dog with a mallet up its arse could predict what Israel would do.
HeAthen
Nadgers.
Well, he's a malignant piece of shit isn't he?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Speaking of new violations, I see the most moral army in the world has been caught pushing / kicking multiple people (hopefully already dead) off of buildings:
IDF confirms 'review' after Israeli soldiers filmed pushing 'lifeless bodies from roofs' in West Bank raid
The IDF said the incident is "under review," calling it "a serious incident that does not coincide with IDF values and the expectations from IDF soldiers".
This is why IDF don't let reporters into Gaza.
Wkdloz
Member
They are doing a fucking good impersonation of a rogue state!
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
Israel is a rogue state. Who will stop them? - JVP
On May 26, the Israeli military carried out an unspeakable massacre in a humanitarian zone in Rafah, bombing tent camps filled with displaced men, women, and children, and killing 45 Palestinians. Hundreds of others were wounded.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
This is why the idf kill reporters in gaza
teqniq
DisMembered
Only democracy in the Middle East:
British Man in Israel Hoping to Make Aliyah Deported After Being Arrested at Protests
British Man in Israel Hoping to Make Aliyah Deported After Being Arrested at Protests
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
This onion headline sucks.
miktheword
Well-Known Member
Off topic, but your military has killed more than its fair share of babies and children, then covered it up, in numerous countries and over centuries.Hezbollah
who were planning to bomb tourists and a military band a glorious legitimate Target whose sluaghter would have brought a socialist Ireland one step closer. the same "people" who had no problem shooting babies or blowing up children. 30 years of murder and mayhem and they achieved fuck all
Trying to bomb military bands (Deal also) was a reply to paras and marines who had just done tours in the O6Cs, giving it the biggun. there's a price to pay. Sometimes successful, sometimes not.
A socialist Ireland wasn't brought closer by those acts. Nobody claimed it was. Socialism is the result of collective action of the organised working class.
But bombing and mayhem 'achieved fuck all'?
Bombing your square mile certainly concentrated minds, and we have power sharing here now. 'Fuck all' is what we had before the bombings.
As Tony Blair said to SDLP Seamus Mallon, as he explained why Sinn Fein were the ones they had to deal with ' you don't have any guns do you?'
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
TBF the guy is a tosser.
I can completely understand he wants to go there to live with his partner. But its like does he not understand what Israel is about?
I'm not a great supporter of Israel but I can understand why some of the authorities got pissed off with him.
Its Israel. Not being nice to Palestinians is how it is. And he seemed surprised by that.
His reaction is that Israel is a ' a difficult and complicated place for Jews"
What?
And then he says this. Where I lost all sympathy for him
Well yes. You sign up to join a Zionist State of Israel and I would think a political opinion on the Zionist state matters. He didn't seem to get that.
Did he not wonder why Palestinians do not have automatic right of return to Israel / Palestine? A right he has.
If he had been more sensible he would have kept his head down got his citizenship and stayed with his partner.
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Bingoman
Well-Known Member
Is this classed as war crime or just stupidity?Speaking of new violations, I see the most moral army in the world has been caught pushing / kicking multiple people (hopefully already dead) off of buildings:
IDF confirms 'review' after Israeli soldiers filmed pushing 'lifeless bodies from roofs' in West Bank raid
The IDF said the incident is "under review," calling it "a serious incident that does not coincide with IDF values and the expectations from IDF soldiers".
PTK
Paul Kegan
The US Army in Iraq distinguished between "insurgents" and "terrorirsts".
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
What comes across to me is that the dehumanisation of a people whose land has been stolen and who have been expelled from it by Zionists has seeped into Israeli society so much that this treatment of dead Palestinians is normal.
The fact that these soldiers did this in full view of international press shows that the way Israeli society has developed since 1948 as a Zionist state shows Palestinian lives do not matter.
It's not that these individual soldiers were at fault. Its Zionism.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
IIRC one of the things the retired army officer Charlie Herbert said very early on in the war was that the fact footage was being filmed by various IDF members doing strange things (I think the clip he was talking about they were firing off hundreds of rounds through a machine gun at a random building) seemed to him that discipline and leadership in these forces were lax; not only were they doing crazy things but also they had no fear of getting into trouble for filming and sharing it.
They (the soldiers) know they do not get into trouble for doing things like this, so in that sense the blame for them doing it really needs to rest with the IDF and the political leadership at least as much as it does with the people who do it.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
IDF is very different , from what I've read, to experience of someone in British army.
The nearest we would get to it is WW2. Where large numbers were conscripted. A peoples war.
IDf grew out of the Zionist para military groups that founded the Israeli state. Still now retired IDF officers go into politics.
David Ben Gurion saw IDF as key institution to build a new Jewish state.
It has a large number of reservists who are called up as now when Israel is in danger.
This is completely different to present British army.
IDF is integral to Israeli society.
I don't think its lack of discipline or lack of leadership.
IDF reflects and is part of Israeli society in way that isn't seen in ours.
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