Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I don't really understand that position. If Hamas refuses to hand over hostages, is it ok for Israel to continue bombing civilians?
Israel should stop bombing civilians in Gaza. Now. Regardless of anything Hamas may or may not do.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
The DEC have put out their holding statement:
www.dec.org.uk
Monitoring
We are closely monitoring a number of humanitarian disasters and assessing them against our criteria for launching an appeal.
teqniq
DisMembered
Whatever happened to their Hippocratic oath?
www.newarab.com
Israeli doctors call for bombing of Gaza's Al-Shifa hospital
Israeli doctors have jointly called on their army to strike Gaza's largest hospital, claiming it is being used as a base for Hamas fighters.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
And these doctors know this how?Whatever happened to their Hippocratic oath?
Israeli doctors call for bombing of Gaza's Al-Shifa hospital
Israeli doctors have jointly called on their army to strike Gaza's largest hospital, claiming it is being used as a base for Hamas fighters.
teqniq
DisMembered
That is, of course a very good question.
ska invita
back on the other side
Here's another reported figure this time from ActionAid
"More than half a million people in northern Gaza face death by starvation as food supplies run “perilously” low, an international charity has warned.
In a statement on Monday, ActionAid said that a “near-total depletion” of food and water supplies is endangering the lives of civilians trapped in northern Gaza who have barely survived nearly a month of intense bombardment.
Riham Jafari, coordinator of advocacy and communication for ActionAid Palestine, said:
"Cases of dehydration and malnutrition are increasing rapidly. Hospitals, which have remained over capacity for weeks on end, can offer no solace to those on the brink of starvation as medical supplies run low, fuel is scarce, and bombs are indiscriminately dropped across Gaza including on the footsteps of hospitals."
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
They're just agreeing with the evidence that the the IDF presented showing Hamas are using hospitals. They're a NGO of Israeli doctors called Doctors for the Rights of Israeli Soldiers, so hardly a surprise they're pro-the current military attacks.
Whatever happened to their Hippocratic oath?
Israeli doctors call for bombing of Gaza's Al-Shifa hospital
Israeli doctors have jointly called on their army to strike Gaza's largest hospital, claiming it is being used as a base for Hamas fighters.
You can think they're wrong or disagree with their statement, but the oath is not relevant, it's about doing best for their patients not being a pacifist or similar.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Whatever happened to their Hippocratic oath?
Israeli doctors call for bombing of Gaza's Al-Shifa hospital
Israeli doctors have jointly called on their army to strike Gaza's largest hospital, claiming it is being used as a base for Hamas fighters.
I heard there's a bunch of Hamas fighters hiding in a tunnel under Netanyahu's house.
ska invita
back on the other side
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh doctors calling for bombing hospitals is like librarians demanding book burning
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Policy statement of Doctors for the total elimination of Hamas. "Any injured militants must be treated for wounds and healed where possible. Then killed."
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I can't think of a more terrible cruelty than letting people die of thirst. You're desperate, so you drink unsafe water. You get sick with diarrhoea and vomiting, but the treatment for that is simple; replacement electrolytes and plenty of water. Oh wait, there's no clean water. And no fuel to even boil unclean water. Children will be the most vulnerable.
Meanwhile in Israel, there are golf courses and lawn sprinklers.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It's not at the beginning, Biden just thinks that. Same as with any conversation he's having.According to C4 news Biden is still discussing "humanitarian pauses" with Netanyahu but "the conversation is at the beginning and not at the end".Well thats useful
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I think Biden's role in the assault on Gaza is despicable and murderous, but I don't think dementia related digs are all that helpful.
Apologies if I've read that wrongly of course.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've read about hundred pages of history of IDF by an Israeli.
www.versobooks.com
Given the bombing of Gaza was curious.
So far what comes across is that Ben Gurion saw IDF has way to build a nation.
He said something like Israel is a state the thing is to build a nation.
Israel was built by armed struggle.
Building Israel , if I read this right, was also building a new kind of how to be a Jew
For example making Hebrew the language of the new state. Yiddish and various European languages were the common language of early immigrants.
Hebrew unlike Yiddish was a dead language.
Making it the language of the new state was drawing a difference between European Jewish culture and the new Jewish citizen of the new state
I remember Ilan Pappe saying. ( And he's hardly a fan of his country) that you've got to give it to the Zionists they created and built a whole new state and society.
It might be worth considering that Israel is not a continuation of European Jewish culture ( Yiddish in Eastern Europe destroyed by Nazis) but a new cultural formation.
I'm not saying this as a criticism. Pappe for example says this was an achievement. Even though he became , as an Israeli Jew , disillusioned with it
The IDF play a major role in every Israel life. Starts early at school . IDF ex senior officers go on to politics / business etc.
In fact some of the more recent issues about corruption is ex army officers setting up business and regarding themselves as above the law
As IDF has such high status. Any political party wants to have quota of ex senior IDF people in it.
IDF even had role in cultural production. Still runs popular radio station.
An Army Like No Other
The Israeli army, officially named the Israel Defence Forces (IDF), was established in 1948 by David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, who believed that ‘the whole nation is the army’. In his mind, the IDF was to be an army like no other. It was the instrument that might transform a...
www.versobooks.com
Given the bombing of Gaza was curious.
So far what comes across is that Ben Gurion saw IDF has way to build a nation.
He said something like Israel is a state the thing is to build a nation.
Israel was built by armed struggle.
Building Israel , if I read this right, was also building a new kind of how to be a Jew
For example making Hebrew the language of the new state. Yiddish and various European languages were the common language of early immigrants.
Hebrew unlike Yiddish was a dead language.
Making it the language of the new state was drawing a difference between European Jewish culture and the new Jewish citizen of the new state
I remember Ilan Pappe saying. ( And he's hardly a fan of his country) that you've got to give it to the Zionists they created and built a whole new state and society.
It might be worth considering that Israel is not a continuation of European Jewish culture ( Yiddish in Eastern Europe destroyed by Nazis) but a new cultural formation.
I'm not saying this as a criticism. Pappe for example says this was an achievement. Even though he became , as an Israeli Jew , disillusioned with it
The IDF play a major role in every Israel life. Starts early at school . IDF ex senior officers go on to politics / business etc.
In fact some of the more recent issues about corruption is ex army officers setting up business and regarding themselves as above the law
As IDF has such high status. Any political party wants to have quota of ex senior IDF people in it.
IDF even had role in cultural production. Still runs popular radio station.
Shifa Hospital was i think described as being the biggest such facility in Gaza.As is well known some thousands of desperate civilians have crowded into the hospital and its environs in the expectation that there at least they will avoid the shelling.As I think Pickmans model has already suggested the idea that a group of Israeli doctors would put pen to paper to call for there to be an airstrike on Shifa is monstrous.Beggars belief.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
No, because the oath is nothing to do with this. If they were suggesting their patients not get the best care because they were Hamas fighters then it would be. But it's not about their patients at all.
You can argue it's immoral or terrible politics by all means, but it's nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath (which is not legally binding and not all doctors take anyway).
There is no general 'do no harm' principle for medical staff to people that aren't their patients though (and is much nore complex than that anyway), so yes, it might seem pedantic, but tieing this into the Hippocratic Oath is just nonsense and there's no need to try and invent connections to discredit something when actual better reasons exist.
Last edited:
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
This is just stereotypical antisemitic shite.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
I've read about hundred pages of history of IDF by an Israeli.
An Army Like No Other
The Israeli army, officially named the Israel Defence Forces (IDF), was established in 1948 by David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, who believed that ‘the whole nation is the army’. In his mind, the IDF was to be an army like no other. It was the instrument that might transform a...
Given the bombing of Gaza was curious.
So far what comes across is that Ben Gurion saw IDF has way to build a nation.
He said something like Israel is a state the thing is to build a nation.
Israel was built by armed struggle.
Building Israel , if I read this right, was also building a new kind of how to be a Jew
For example making Hebrew the language of the new state. Yiddish and various European languages were the common language of early immigrants.
Hebrew unlike Yiddish was a dead language.
Making it the language of the new state was drawing a difference between European Jewish culture and the new Jewish citizen of the new state
I remember Ilan Pappe saying. ( And he's hardly a fan of his country) that you've got to give it to the Zionists they created and built a whole new state and society.
It might be worth considering that Israel is not a continuation of European Jewish culture ( Yiddish in Eastern Europe destroyed by Nazis) but a new cultural formation.
I'm not saying this as a criticism. Pappe for example says this was an achievement. Even though he became , as an Israeli Jew , disillusioned with it
The IDF play a major role in every Israel life. Starts early at school . IDF ex senior officers go on to politics / business etc.
In fact some of the more recent issues about corruption is ex army officers setting up business and regarding themselves as above the law
As IDF has such high status. Any political party wants to have quota of ex senior IDF people in it.
IDF even had role in cultural production. Still runs popular radio station.
Stick on daytime TV in Israel and it win’t be long until you see someone in uniform. Israel is an army.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Gaza counts as occupied territory. Its not the same as Israel bombing another state that has attacked it.
Any calls to bomb a medical facility by doctors working for the state that is doing the bombing of a territory of which it is the the occupation force is at the very least questionable.
And could be argued to be supporting a war crime.
This isn't simply a matter of being immoral or bad politics.
childrenandarmedconflict.un.org
Any calls to bomb a medical facility by doctors working for the state that is doing the bombing of a territory of which it is the the occupation force is at the very least questionable.
And could be argued to be supporting a war crime.
This isn't simply a matter of being immoral or bad politics.
Attacks on Schools and Hospitals – Office of the Special Representative of the Secretary-General for Children and Armed Conflict
childrenandarmedconflict.un.org
Prohibition under International Law
Under international humanitarian law, both schools and hospitals are protected civilian objects, and therefore benefit from the humanitarian principles of distinction and proportionality. Direct physical attacks and the closure of these institutions as a result of direct threats have since 2011 been added as triggers for inclusion on the list of the Secretary-General of parties to conflict committing grave violations against children in armed conflict.
Last edited:
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Then, once you have agreed not to say "humanitarian pause", you say "tactical pause". It's like a word-ladder, but in support of war crimes.
Similar threads
