Israel and hezbollah after the exploding pagers
- Thread starter Pickman's model
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Did post this on the main thread
www.hrw.org
Human Rights Watch say investigation of this should be done.
So far Israel are neither denying news reports they did it or saying they did.
But seems obvious it was them.
This needs to be investigated for possible breaking international law.
Lebanon: Exploding Pagers Harmed Hezbollah, Civilians
Thousands of pagers simultaneously exploded across Lebanon and parts of Syria on September 17, 2024, resulting in at least 12 deaths, including at least two children and two health workers, and at least 2,800 injuries, according to Lebanon’s Ministry of Health.
Human Rights Watch say investigation of this should be done.
So far Israel are neither denying news reports they did it or saying they did.
But seems obvious it was them.
This needs to be investigated for possible breaking international law.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
D'ya reckon?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Pretty all I've read on it so far are saying its Israel. Including BBC.
Who else did you have in mind?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This, and the subsequent attacks on Lebanon, are simply a key part of Netanyahu's election strategy. A country at permanent war is less likely to get rid of its government especially if the US keeps backing them. It might sound strange but whilst permanent war might sound good for the rubber necking war boys faction on Urban I'm not convinced its really beneficial for the rest of the world.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
He learned long ago that there is no need for a Mr. Security in a secure world, so he set a load of stuff / people on fire. His career has gone from strength to strength since.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
You know, I have this niggling doubt that the Israeli state gives a fuck about civilian casualties
PTK
Paul Kegan
It is completely irresponsible to plant bombs in objects that could injure any person anywhere. The people targeted were not all soldiers, and those that were soldiers were not engaged in military operations. Random civilians have also been maimed and killed.
The population of Lebanon has been terrorised by the actions of the State of Israel.
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone with one of the pagers could have been walking down a street in another country, perhaps Britain.
A responsible Prime Minister of the UK would issue a statement condemning these booby-trap bombings, announcing that the UK will not tolerate such activities, and demanding that those responsible for these war crimes are brought to trial, and that if the State of Israel takes no action, then the UK will expel the Israeli Ambassador.
The population of Lebanon has been terrorised by the actions of the State of Israel.
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone with one of the pagers could have been walking down a street in another country, perhaps Britain.
A responsible Prime Minister of the UK would issue a statement condemning these booby-trap bombings, announcing that the UK will not tolerate such activities, and demanding that those responsible for these war crimes are brought to trial, and that if the State of Israel takes no action, then the UK will expel the Israeli Ambassador.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Even if investigated It’ll just be added to the pile of indictments, and fuck all will happen. And so it goes.Did post this on the main thread
Lebanon: Exploding Pagers Harmed Hezbollah, Civilians
Thousands of pagers simultaneously exploded across Lebanon and parts of Syria on September 17, 2024, resulting in at least 12 deaths, including at least two children and two health workers, and at least 2,800 injuries, according to Lebanon’s Ministry of Health.
Human Rights Watch say investigation of this should be done.
So far Israel are neither denying news reports they did it or saying they did.
But seems obvious it was them.
This needs to be investigated for possible breaking international law.
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
I stand by what I said on the main thread. If these bombs had been triggered at a time when open hostilities were underway, and Hezbollah was trying to fully mobilize its troops, this might have had some consequential military effect. As it is, it's nothing more than a gimmick and a stunt, whose long-term or even short-term benefit to Israel is less than easy to see.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
I think it actually throws bright light on how Hezbollah is nothing like the formidable force that we've told it is.
I think Israel is to some extent calling their Bluff and basically saying "yea so what you gonna do about it" I don't expect the retaliations to be much beyond quite pathetic in military terms
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
It's not really indiscriminate unless Hezbollah were giving pagers away. If they had boobytrapped food or medical supplies or phones anyone could buy in a shop yeah you would have violated Geneva conventions
Boobytrapping enemy communication devices purchased by the enemy and given out to members of the enemy organisation. Probably hard to get any more discrimination than that.
Or escalating as they were already fighting.
ska invita
back on the other side
Look at the victim list
Where's the mass counterattack? Doesn't seem to have happened yet
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Bit difficult to organise if the commanders who aren't in hospital aren't going near a phone or a radio.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Looks like (caveats...) the Israelis hit a pow-wow of senior Hezbollah people - including Ibrahim Aqil - the head of operations, and the leadership of the Rawin/Radwan group, which is one of the sub-groups within Hezbollah that's particularly involved in operations within Israel.
Make people lose confidence in their communications, so they meet in person.
Probably a fair number of civilian dead from this attack. The meeting was held under a tower block.
Make people lose confidence in their communications, so they meet in person.
Probably a fair number of civilian dead from this attack. The meeting was held under a tower block.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Presumably one of the things the Israelies will
be trying to do is to damage or degrade Hezbolla’s influence over civil society in Lebanon. The lack of comms will contribute to that. Of course almost impossible to know how or if it will work or not.
Also be interesting to know how much this will damage Iranian prestige, they funded the pagers either directly or indirectly. Did the Iranian analogues of GCHQ and or DSTL have a chance to inspect the kit, and if so did they miss the explosive and control elements?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I think it'll turn into a witch hunt within/around Hezbollah - I've not seen anything to suggest that the Comms gear passed through Iranian hands, but there's going to be a bloodbath as they look at who decided to go for western gear rather than Iranian, or Russian, or Chinese, who introduced them to this company that apparently doesn't exist, who within the Hezbollah structures proposed dealing with them and who signed off on it, and did anyone think to check that the stuff was safe - I'm assuming they'd have been worried about the Israelis listening in, rather than blowing them up, but it's the same thought process/risk assessment.
If any interested journalist can work out with an hour of opening their laptop that BAC is a shell/front company that employs no one and makes nothing, what were Hezbollah's intelligence, security and procurement arms doing?
Who was being lazy, who was taking a bung, and who is a traitor?
If any interested journalist can work out with an hour of opening their laptop that BAC is a shell/front company that employs no one and makes nothing, what were Hezbollah's intelligence, security and procurement arms doing?
Who was being lazy, who was taking a bung, and who is a traitor?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I agree with you re recent events, the exploding pagers, exploding walkie-talkies, airstrike on Hezbollah leader in southern Beirut - these attacks are all clearly an escalation on the part of Israel.
But what I suspect the media narrative is all about, when they ask if it will lead to an escalation, reading between the lines, is Israeli incursion into southern Lebanon, boots on the ground. I think that's probably loosely what they mean by 'escalation'.
I heard on the radio that there's effectively a buffer zone in the north of Israeli, south of the Lebanese border, where 60,000 Israeli homes are currently vacant, having been evacuated at some point.
It would probably help Netanyahu, on one level, if he can help those displaced Israelis return home. To which end, it would probably be preferable to Netanyahu if that buffer zone from Hezbollah rockets is on the Lebanese side of the border.
Although, of course, it will also be politically damaging to Netanyahu. At home and abroad.
But perhaps Netanyahu's willing to take that risk, at least for now, emboldened by the West's and wider international community's failures to halt the genocide in Gaza, he's possibly thinking he has a window of opportunity for an incursion into Lebanon. He's laying the ground for it by weakening Hezbollah's leadership and networks.
He's trying the patience of the UN, and world leaders, he's pushing their political will and boundaries, and he's going to literally push geographical boundaries in the process.
Expect a Lebanese landgrab, he's done it in Gaza - does anyone here really expect the Israeli troops will withdraw and the previous boundaries will remain the same?
Everyone's seen that series of maps, right? The ones that show the receding land that make up Gaza and the West Bank since 1948?
It's a geographical 'death by a thousand cuts'.
HeAthen
Nadgers.
I think it's more whether Hezbollah will escalate things in response which will then be framed as them being the agressor. Israel will be continued to be allowed to operate with impunity by large elements of the media and the US, UK and other governments (although that voice is getting smaller). Netanyahu doesn't care as it keeps him in power which is what the scale of Israel's operations is really all about. He knows that if he hadn't gone in in such an apallingly over the top manner that the Israeli population would have blamed him for the scale of the atrocities on October 7th and he'd now be out of power and likely in prison for his many other crimes.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
How are they going to escalate? Their comms network is shattered taken a vast amount of casualties and some commanders are dead.
HeAthen
Nadgers.
Obviously I wouldn't know the specifics but I'd be very surprised if they just go away. I'm sure their backers will do what they can to rebuild quickly. The point I was making though was that the Israeli's terrorist actions themselves are a very clear escalation and should be recognised as such.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Was watching Al Jazeera lat night. A member of the Lebanese government who is not Hezbollah was on.
As she said these are terrorist attacks and Israel has history when it comes to attacking Lebanon
These attacks by Israel are on another state. The people getting caught up in it are not Hezbollah.
So these killings by Israel are extra judicial killings with the collateral damage being the citizens of another state.
I now some people think this is so clever and Hezbollah had it coming but the fact is a state that likes to portray itself as part of western democratic side is using terroristic methods to defend itself.
Some people might think fine. Myself I'm not happy with this.
As she said these are terrorist attacks and Israel has history when it comes to attacking Lebanon
These attacks by Israel are on another state. The people getting caught up in it are not Hezbollah.
So these killings by Israel are extra judicial killings with the collateral damage being the citizens of another state.
I now some people think this is so clever and Hezbollah had it coming but the fact is a state that likes to portray itself as part of western democratic side is using terroristic methods to defend itself.
Some people might think fine. Myself I'm not happy with this.
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
Chinese pager factories are working round the clock, apparently.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Sure there's a plan b and probably a plan c
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
The 2020 explosion killed 218 and injured over 7000 none of whom could be classed as combatants and few if any have been in Hezbollah. Total deaths from the Israeli attacks so far seem to be about 100 including a substantial number of Hezbollah members and around 3,000 injured.
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